March 2003 - Sinister - missprint.org

Re: Sinister: only shades of grey
by ian 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

i'll never make a proper librarian. i didn't credit my reference the parts marked with a * were taken from an article by margaret wente, published in the globe and mail (a canadian newspaper) on Saturday, November 23, 2002. sadly, the online archive for that newspaper doesn't go back that far but if you do have an interest, i can forward you the article. its worth reading. until i read it, i was completely anti-war. i suppose i had The Certainty too. enough now, on with your lives xx ian -----Original Message----- From: ian <hobart(a)dimensionflip.fsnet.co.uk> To: sinister(a)missprint.org <sinister(a)missprint.org> Date: 20 March 2003 22:50 Subject: Sinister: only shades of grey >unchallenged opinion is a dangerous thing. far too easily, it can >masquerade as fact. > >all eyes gaze east. apart from those of the japanese, who bow to their >buddhas and turn westerwards, regarding a thousand miles of air, perhaps >reminding themselves, as only the japanese can, of what a bombing raid can >lead >to. > >all eyes gaze east. apart from those huddled underground in bomb shelters, >apart from those staring across their city at distant fires and wondering >how close the next one will be. > >i talk of the world crashing in on me. i wish i could escape the war. poor >me. i'm sick of it being everywhere i turn. poor me. >but i can. i can turn my television off, i can stop reading my >sinister mail, i can close my ears to the conversations around me. and i >can go to my yoga class, as normal, and tell myself i'm connecting to the >universe. >its easy to get disheartened, and count your curses. right now, i feel like >one of the luckiest people on the planet. i'm well-fed, i'm sheltered. i'm >safe. i live in a democracy, where people are free to protest against the >government without being abducted and tortured. > >they flew a banner for peace from the clock tower at birmingham university. >you can see 'old joe' for miles, a great academic phallus piercing the selly >oak skyline. its been a while since anybody climbed the phallus. a few >years back, two korean students climbed the spiral staircase, and flew from >the rooftop. bad exam results. it was the end of their world. >now, the tower is locked, or so they told us. but the banner flew anyway. >a testament to impossibility, perhaps. echoing those impossible hopes of >those who want the war ended. > >but who was looking at birmingham? we look east, at the other testaments to >impossibility. iraqi missiles that, officially, do not exist were dropped >on kuwait. > >disarmed? >did you really believe that, for a second?? > >cameras gobble images greedily, and project them for their gruesomely >fascinated audience around the world. we settle down to watch, aware that >this will be the most captivating show of the last year, six months and nine >days. in between bulletins - soft drinks; lip stick; cream that visibly >reduces wrinkles injust nine days!.. we can buy anything we want. > >we can buy entertainment. and what entertainment! the images are not as >exciting as those of eighteen months ago. a few fires, shown in >infra-red... we're used to >bigger and better, these days. we want collapsing towers. but we're told >that this is just the beginning. stay tuned. we'll be back right after >these >commercials. > >you learn nothing from watching explosions.. look elsewhere: > >a four-year-old girl, the daughter of a man who had worked for >Saddam's psychopathic son Uday. When the man fell under suspicion, he >fled to the Kurdish safe haven in the north. The police came for his >wife and tortured her to reveal his whereabouts; when she didn't break, >they took his daughter and crushed her feet. She was 2 then. Today, she >wears metal braces on her legs, and can only hobble.* > >This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force >confessions from their parents and grandparents.* > >the man with the megaphone chastised us for not taking action. he shouted >that if schoolchildren, so much younger than us, could see that war was >wrong, we as wiser, more experienced adults could surely see the same. >an odd argument. i saw so many things as a child. everything was clear. i >knew i was right. in a child, this is acceptable. an adult should know >more of subtlety, of uncertainty. any adult that is assured of their own >correctness is a dangerous person. > >bush and blair are the real monsters, the man with the megaphone told me. i >thought of the iraqi women violated with broken glass to extract confessions >from their husbands. but i said nothing. you can't shout at a man with a >megaphone. you can't attempt reasoned argument with someone with such >certainty. > i should have laughed in his face, but i felt too angry. > >inflammatory times feed inflammatory language. people talk of hate, of >evil. people mutter about the stupidity of those who do not agree with >them. we'd like to think we're better here, but we're not. > >evil...i watched the series where a girl with a good stock of one-liners, a >sharpened stake and a huge contract from loreal can save the world... with >the help of her lesbian witch friend, of course. it may be presented as >fantasy but it makes as much sense as anything else to me. hell, we aren't >doing such a great job of saving it the conventional way.. >a line from the show: 'evil is a part of us...its natural' >and guess what i thought of? >but you shouldn't trust your television. evil is a concept. a convenient >word for someone who acts in a manner we cannot understand. like all >concepts, it should never be confused with a reality. > >or should it? is it part of us? 600 or more people in a Parliament, and >they voted for >the bombs. its easy to shoot off invective, to foist absolutes upon them.. >but they voted for their own reasons. something inside them believed. not >in george bush, but in the wisdom of removing a torturer, a mass-murderer >and a tyrant from power. >evil? hateful? these are the words of ann clwyd - a woman who was fighting >to make this a fairer world while most of us were in the crib, or the womb. >http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/cm03 0 > read them. now compare her to saddam. > >blair is the real monster? blair is evil? absolutely. gassing ones own >people pales into insignificance next to the introduction of tuition fees. > >i know... i know the real reason... but i can't accept your argument. > >people shout from one side, people drop bombs from the other. you're either >with us or against us. really? is that what it comes down to? then i'm >against you. i'm against both sides. i don't know if the certainty i've >heard here is enviable or alarming. > >i can hear the television in the next room. the prime minister just spoke >to the nation, presumably to tell us what we already know. we're going to >hurt people. > >"The Pentagon predicts that the Iraq blitzkrieg could approximate the >devastation of a nuclear explosion. "The sheer size of this has never been >... contemplated before," one Pentagon strategist boasted to CBS News. >"There will not be a safe place in Baghdad." > >what can you say to that? except that, perhaps, there never was a safe >place in baghdad. not in our lifetimes. > >we talk as if we know them. we know nothing, except ourselves. > >i can't see their black, i thought i could, once, but i turned out to have >my eyes closed. >i can't see your white, either. haven't been able to for years. > >from here, it all looks grey. > >there are no absolutes. >this, in itself, is an absolute. > >all the above is opinion. and you know what they say about unchallenged >opinion. > >should we talk about music?? > >ian > > > >+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ > To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe > send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to > majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister > +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ > +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ > +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ > +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ > +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ > +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ > +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ >+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: only shades of grey
by ian 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

unchallenged opinion is a dangerous thing. far too easily, it can masquerade as fact. all eyes gaze east. apart from those of the japanese, who bow to their buddhas and turn westerwards, regarding a thousand miles of air, perhaps reminding themselves, as only the japanese can, of what a bombing raid can lead to. all eyes gaze east. apart from those huddled underground in bomb shelters, apart from those staring across their city at distant fires and wondering how close the next one will be. i talk of the world crashing in on me. i wish i could escape the war. poor me. i'm sick of it being everywhere i turn. poor me. but i can. i can turn my television off, i can stop reading my sinister mail, i can close my ears to the conversations around me. and i can go to my yoga class, as normal, and tell myself i'm connecting to the universe. its easy to get disheartened, and count your curses. right now, i feel like one of the luckiest people on the planet. i'm well-fed, i'm sheltered. i'm safe. i live in a democracy, where people are free to protest against the government without being abducted and tortured. they flew a banner for peace from the clock tower at birmingham university. you can see 'old joe' for miles, a great academic phallus piercing the selly oak skyline. its been a while since anybody climbed the phallus. a few years back, two korean students climbed the spiral staircase, and flew from the rooftop. bad exam results. it was the end of their world. now, the tower is locked, or so they told us. but the banner flew anyway. a testament to impossibility, perhaps. echoing those impossible hopes of those who want the war ended. but who was looking at birmingham? we look east, at the other testaments to impossibility. iraqi missiles that, officially, do not exist were dropped on kuwait. disarmed? did you really believe that, for a second?? cameras gobble images greedily, and project them for their gruesomely fascinated audience around the world. we settle down to watch, aware that this will be the most captivating show of the last year, six months and nine days. in between bulletins - soft drinks; lip stick; cream that visibly reduces wrinkles injust nine days!.. we can buy anything we want. we can buy entertainment. and what entertainment! the images are not as exciting as those of eighteen months ago. a few fires, shown in infra-red... we're used to bigger and better, these days. we want collapsing towers. but we're told that this is just the beginning. stay tuned. we'll be back right after these commercials. you learn nothing from watching explosions.. look elsewhere: a four-year-old girl, the daughter of a man who had worked for Saddam's psychopathic son Uday. When the man fell under suspicion, he fled to the Kurdish safe haven in the north. The police came for his wife and tortured her to reveal his whereabouts; when she didn't break, they took his daughter and crushed her feet. She was 2 then. Today, she wears metal braces on her legs, and can only hobble.* This is a regime that will gouge out the eyes of children to force confessions from their parents and grandparents.* the man with the megaphone chastised us for not taking action. he shouted that if schoolchildren, so much younger than us, could see that war was wrong, we as wiser, more experienced adults could surely see the same. an odd argument. i saw so many things as a child. everything was clear. i knew i was right. in a child, this is acceptable. an adult should know more of subtlety, of uncertainty. any adult that is assured of their own correctness is a dangerous person. bush and blair are the real monsters, the man with the megaphone told me. i thought of the iraqi women violated with broken glass to extract confessions from their husbands. but i said nothing. you can't shout at a man with a megaphone. you can't attempt reasoned argument with someone with such certainty. i should have laughed in his face, but i felt too angry. inflammatory times feed inflammatory language. people talk of hate, of evil. people mutter about the stupidity of those who do not agree with them. we'd like to think we're better here, but we're not. evil...i watched the series where a girl with a good stock of one-liners, a sharpened stake and a huge contract from loreal can save the world... with the help of her lesbian witch friend, of course. it may be presented as fantasy but it makes as much sense as anything else to me. hell, we aren't doing such a great job of saving it the conventional way.. a line from the show: 'evil is a part of us...its natural' and guess what i thought of? but you shouldn't trust your television. evil is a concept. a convenient word for someone who acts in a manner we cannot understand. like all concepts, it should never be confused with a reality. or should it? is it part of us? 600 or more people in a Parliament, and they voted for the bombs. its easy to shoot off invective, to foist absolutes upon them.. but they voted for their own reasons. something inside them believed. not in george bush, but in the wisdom of removing a torturer, a mass-murderer and a tyrant from power. evil? hateful? these are the words of ann clwyd - a woman who was fighting to make this a fairer world while most of us were in the crib, or the womb. http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200203/cmhansrd/cm030 read them. now compare her to saddam. blair is the real monster? blair is evil? absolutely. gassing ones own people pales into insignificance next to the introduction of tuition fees. i know... i know the real reason... but i can't accept your argument. people shout from one side, people drop bombs from the other. you're either with us or against us. really? is that what it comes down to? then i'm against you. i'm against both sides. i don't know if the certainty i've heard here is enviable or alarming. i can hear the television in the next room. the prime minister just spoke to the nation, presumably to tell us what we already know. we're going to hurt people. "The Pentagon predicts that the Iraq blitzkrieg could approximate the devastation of a nuclear explosion. "The sheer size of this has never been ... contemplated before," one Pentagon strategist boasted to CBS News. "There will not be a safe place in Baghdad." what can you say to that? except that, perhaps, there never was a safe place in baghdad. not in our lifetimes. we talk as if we know them. we know nothing, except ourselves. i can't see their black, i thought i could, once, but i turned out to have my eyes closed. i can't see your white, either. haven't been able to for years. from here, it all looks grey. there are no absolutes. this, in itself, is an absolute. all the above is opinion. and you know what they say about unchallenged opinion. should we talk about music?? ian +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: pointless pondering
by idleberry 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

It was a really lovely day today. I felt quite lazy, even though there were things to do. There are always things to do, even when I'm not wanting things to do. But its coming towards the end now, and the elections are finally visable on the metaphorical horizon. I've decided to take some time off work during dissolution, and head down south to Englandshire, and holiday like its 1983. Woo hoo. I know how to have a good time. The kids were out on the streets again today. Recently, its been like walking through the middle of the Festival in August, when nipping out for lunch. Only with horses - real ones with wee visors, rather than pantomine ones. I read Casarottos post, and may I just remind you: Picnics are not big and not clever, but hell, they're fun. And may I also remind you of Lucy, the punkin' instigator, and her idea of the pre-gig picnic for May the 17th in Glasgow. Soap, optional*. I was sitting on the train the other day, and as the train pulled into this rather nice little station I saw something. The station isn't in the nicest part of town, just one of those little suburby areas, that is neither on the verge of town or city. Where the shops consist of bathroom suites, furniture and mortgage lenders. It had a little white picket fence around the station, which I always thought was a rather quaint touch. And there was this man, with his pink thingy out, taking a slash. I looked before I had chance to turn my head in disgust. Why do men have to pee outdoors? Is it some caveman territorial marking thing? Whats the point in having urinals in toilets indoors, when they always end up going outdoors anyway? Maybe its out of consideration for the people who work in places and have to clean the toilets. But I wish he could have gone behind a bush or something, so I didn't have to see it. I've been trying to get hold of an Aislers Set record, from somewhere. My local record shops don't seem to stock it. Grr. I apologise. I'm rambling now and I've become dull in my old age. love idles *Its Glasgow, afterall. THAT WAS A JOKE. ===== http://groups.yahoo.com/group/corduroysmoke/ starting playground gossip and passing notes __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Moral uncertainty?
by Jeff Burke 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

Sorry for another war post if you get aggravated please stop here.... I'm always envious of everyone who protest or debate and has such a strong opinion about this whole Iraq mess. because I've been so wavering it's very disheartening. People say killing and violence are bad and they are. but what would you do if you saw a little kid being kicked by some roughs. You'd try to stop it. even if you had to hurt the roughs. Now i'm not saying that that analogy is appropiate for this topic but the idea behind it is. The idea that sometimes other people force you to violence. I wasn't thrilled about this from the begining because I don't really believe in the current administration, but oddly enough I was comforted by Tony Blair supporting it.. He's labour and he's always been accused of waffling (much like clinton was unjustly accused of) but he's really showing the courage of his convictions despite the serious risk if not the death of his political career. The Opposition from other governments didn't bother me either. I could explain away the french very easily as they'd be losing access to alot of very cheap oil. This war in iraq could cause problems for the US for years and years (say if the "new" country elects a fundamentalist leader) or it could actually stablize the region a little (if they elect a moderate democratic leader). either way afterward the iraqi oil should go to the iraqi people I don't think i'd lose any sleep if Saddam Hussein was arrestted or killed. He's more than shown his disregard for the human race. so at it's heart the goal of removing his government isn't one I can opposed harshly enough to protest against. Maybe i'm overly idealistic but i believe the US and UK armed forces aren't out to kill civillians. And please don't simplifiy arguements by chanting no blood for oil. This isn't an empire expanding exercise to gain more oil. there's plenty of oil in alaska and texas that the US hasn't even touched yet.. (thou' bush wants to drill in alaska bad bad) As much as I dislike Bush I do think he sees a wealthy (and that's where the oil comes in) Saddam Hussein as a threat, it might be wrong, Saddam Hussein might only be a threat to his own people, or his neighbors (If it came down to waiting for Iraq to invade a neighbor again I'd surely vote to wait...but then again I don't live in a neighboring country) but he's shown a psychotic side to him that wouldn't make it a stretch for him to sell very bad weapons who would use him, even if he wouldn't use them himself. There's book i read called "special providence" by Walter Russell Mead.. it's an interesting take on US foreign Policy and it breaks it up in four ways Jeffersonian - Leave the world alone, let's all farm and produce what we need without interphering or interacting with the rest of the world. very Isolationist.. My comments --this aspect is really deeply embedded in the psyche of americans, but it hasn't been used in practice since before World War I Jacksonian - The world is a bad place, people are out to get us, we must strike preemptively at threats to our way of life. MC -- this is what's going on now, September 11 really shocked alot of politicians mainly already conservative ones but Blair is an example of it's effect on liberal ones as well. This is the motivation in my opinion for the current Iraq war. Hamiltonian -- We need to encourage global trade and commerce and need to protect our interests abroad if they are threatened but main we should keep to ourselves. MC -- this is mainly what policy the US follows historically. Clinton was this with a bit of the next... Wilsonian -- We live by the best system in the world, we need to spread free market democracy everywhere we can, encourage it to grown and challenge it's opponents.. MC-- by far the most idealistic, helping the underdog ETC... I'm not sure why i'm rambling on like this... I know it doesn't make sense.. I've always been someone to try to consider all the other view points. and in this case I can't intrinsicly say which is right and which is wrong. .I guess in this world there's too much gray. thanks for reading if you...did. I'd love to hear from you.. sorry for clogging bandwidth. peace jeff. >From: sinkingpie <sinkingpie(a)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: sinkingpie <sinkingpie(a)yahoo.com> >To: sinister(a)missprint.org >Subject: Sinister: How many people are feeling sinister now? >Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:39:50 +0000 (GMT) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc9-f13.bay6.hotmail.com ([65.54.166.20]) by >mc9-s4.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 20 Mar >2003 11:42:24 -0800 >Received: from mail3.atl.registeredsite.com ([64.224.219.77]) by >mc9-f13.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 20 Mar >2003 11:42:23 -0800 >Received: from missprint.org (missprint.org [216.122.88.147])by >mail3.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.6) with ESMTP id >h2KJeKvT009247;Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:42:20 -0500 >Received: from localhost (missprin@localhost)by missprint.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) >with SMTP id TAA24679;Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:40:11 GMT >Received: by missprint.org (bulk_mailer v1.9); Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:39:54 >+0000 >Received: (from missprin@localhost)by missprint.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id >TAA24614for a66403198; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:39:53 GMT >X-Message-Info: BVVQfv+dWoNGDvYIfOP2i6xEeqwdXnfJ >Message-ID: <20030320193950.98785.qmail(a)web10006.mail.yahoo.com> >Sender: owner-sinister(a)missprint.org >List-Id: "Sinister Mailing List" <sinister.missprint.org> >List-Help: <http://www.missprint.org/sinister>, ><mailto:majordomo@missprint.org?Body=help> >List-Unsubscribe: ><mailto:majordomo@missprint.org?Body=unsubscribe%20sinister> >List-Subscribe: <mailto:majordomo@missprint.org?Body=subscribe%20sinister> >List-Post: <mailto:sinister@missprint.org> >List-Archive: <http://www.missprint.org/sinister/archive.html> >List-Owner: <mailto:owner-sinister@missprint.org> >X-Organisation: Miss Print's Printing House <http://www.missprint.org> >X-List: Sinister >x-mailing-list: sinister(a)majordomo.net >Return-Path: owner-sinister(a)missprint.org >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2003 19:42:24.0046 (UTC) >FILETIME=[D45614E0:01C2EF18] > >"How many times must the cannonballs fly, before >they're forever banned" > >I feel an apology is in order to everyone, because >this is another post that may slightly more than touch >on the subject of war. > >My views on this much discussed subject are simple. It >seems to me that intentionally taking away the life of >another human being is fundamentally wrong (certainly >if they're unwilling, we can save euphanasia debates >for a rainy day). Forget about hypocritical >politicians, forget about oil, the simple fact is that >people will die. By this, I mean all of the people >that will die. Including those doing the killing in >the first place. > >A lot of people took part in both protests, and >"protests" today where I live. During breaktime at >school a number of people from other schools showed >up, presumably in an attempt to increase their numbers >(I suspect this may have been a "protest" rather than >a protest). This didn't please the staff at my school >much, neither did the ensuing attempt by a fairly >small number of people deciding not to attend lessons. >I do feel that these gestures were more to get out of >lessons than due to an actual opposition to war, >although that is of course a generalisation, and I'm >sure some of the people were very genuine. > >Three fire engines showed up shortly after this, after >someone decided that setting the fire alarm off would >be an excellent idea for a protest. I wasn't entirely >convinced, and I have to think that a lesson on >gas-liquid chromatography may have been more useful... > >Reading through what I've just written, I fear I may >not actually have said much, so I apologise for that. >But I do think its important for everyone to let >people know how they feel. Just hopefully in a more >appropriate way than setting fire alarms off (rumours >also suggested that protestors set fire to BHS, >although I think that may be from rather unreliable >sources, and quite what anit-war protestors have >against BHS I don't know. any ideas anyone?). > >Finally, on an entirely unrelated note, Ballboy are >playing on John Peel tonight, and I do suggest that >listening may be enjoyable (this isn't as unrelated to >B&S as it may first appear, allow me to explain. >Ballboy are fairly heavily influenced by hefner, and >an early hefner single (or EP?) had someone from B&S >(can't quite remember who) playing keyboards on the >B-side. a tenuous link I agree). > >Thanks for reading this, its a nice feeling that I may >have shared my views with some other people (even if >no-one reads this, I'll think they have). Perhaps our >representatives in london will have a sudden change of >heart. We live in hope. > >The answer is blowing in the wind. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com >+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ > To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe > send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to > majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister > +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ > +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ > +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ > +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ > +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ > +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ > +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ >+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: How many people are feeling sinister now?
by sinkingpie 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

"How many times must the cannonballs fly, before they're forever banned" I feel an apology is in order to everyone, because this is another post that may slightly more than touch on the subject of war. My views on this much discussed subject are simple. It seems to me that intentionally taking away the life of another human being is fundamentally wrong (certainly if they're unwilling, we can save euphanasia debates for a rainy day). Forget about hypocritical politicians, forget about oil, the simple fact is that people will die. By this, I mean all of the people that will die. Including those doing the killing in the first place. A lot of people took part in both protests, and "protests" today where I live. During breaktime at school a number of people from other schools showed up, presumably in an attempt to increase their numbers (I suspect this may have been a "protest" rather than a protest). This didn't please the staff at my school much, neither did the ensuing attempt by a fairly small number of people deciding not to attend lessons. I do feel that these gestures were more to get out of lessons than due to an actual opposition to war, although that is of course a generalisation, and I'm sure some of the people were very genuine. Three fire engines showed up shortly after this, after someone decided that setting the fire alarm off would be an excellent idea for a protest. I wasn't entirely convinced, and I have to think that a lesson on gas-liquid chromatography may have been more useful... Reading through what I've just written, I fear I may not actually have said much, so I apologise for that. But I do think its important for everyone to let people know how they feel. Just hopefully in a more appropriate way than setting fire alarms off (rumours also suggested that protestors set fire to BHS, although I think that may be from rather unreliable sources, and quite what anit-war protestors have against BHS I don't know. any ideas anyone?). Finally, on an entirely unrelated note, Ballboy are playing on John Peel tonight, and I do suggest that listening may be enjoyable (this isn't as unrelated to B&S as it may first appear, allow me to explain. Ballboy are fairly heavily influenced by hefner, and an early hefner single (or EP?) had someone from B&S (can't quite remember who) playing keyboards on the B-side. a tenuous link I agree). Thanks for reading this, its a nice feeling that I may have shared my views with some other people (even if no-one reads this, I'll think they have). Perhaps our representatives in london will have a sudden change of heart. We live in hope. The answer is blowing in the wind. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: and the snow has stopped falling, falling, falling
by Mark Casarotto 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

Hey Sinister, War: what is it good for? Well, historically, the commencement of conflict has dramatically boosted the stock market, so now may be good time to pile back into shares. You heard it here first! Secondly, The Dirty Vicar was pretty much spot on when he talked about the good ol' days of Sinister meet-ups. Which makes me wonder what we can do to make some of that magic return. As you all know, Ken has been selling the April 5/6 weekend in London like a hyperactive Swiss Toni - A Sinister picnic is very much like making love to a beautiful woman, etc. In fact, on past performance, quite a lot of Sinister picnics have ended up quite literally like that. So. People who've never been to a picnic before - come along, bring friends for reinforcements, bring savoury foodstuffs for the good of the masses, bring a willing pair of legs (to climb the hill, for a start, and to play fitba!). I think that was all I have to say, really. I'm currently wondering what to do today, my 4th last in Denver before returning home to London (*sticks out bottom lip*), as the 30 inches of snow that's fallen over the last two days is only just beginning to thaw, and Sarah's car is almost invisible under it, and we don't have a shovel. Boo! So I'll leave dear Sinister to its usual machinations. Fuck Bush, fuck him with knives. See you all later. Mark xxx __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Oh no! We forgot granddad!
by robin stout 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

I was never a spy in Baghdad; I never had dinner with The Dictator and his charming family, or washed my nervous hands in his bathroom. I never grew up under a Stalinist regime; never worried about arrest when I spoke my mind, never crumbled in the cellar as the bombs fell. I left my seat at the meeting of the New World Order empty; I never chose which nations would stand and which would fall, never dinted my compass on the map of history. In a world full of cats in boxes I won't even pretend to know what it's all about. Other people can tell you that if they want to. They seem to know. Instead, my advice for positive action now the war has begun is this: Find someone, call someone, hug someone, tell them you love them. Do that. Be good to someone. Be understanding and sympathetic. Let people know that the world isn't all hate and anger. Pretending to die in Jack Straw's garden won't do anyone any good. Sharing a biscuit with a someone on your lunch break will. ++ Miller spoke about "up the bum" sex: << Another thing that makes me wonder about the sweetness of pain is moving house. I am moving house to Cambridge. It never fails to amaze me how difficult moving house actually is. I remember thinking that walking along a couple of streets with a suitcase full of Penguin Classics was difficult. >> I spent the weekend helping my granddad move house. It was great fun. Me and me dad got to drive around in a big van and wear blue overalls and eat pie and chips. But Miller's right about how difficult moving house is. Over the years, my granddad seems to have become sentimentally attached to huge pieces of wood and sheets of corrugated iron, which he seems to think he might need in case he has to build a shed one day. It's always good to have these things just in case, apparently. Put them at the back of the van next to the bedside cabinet, would you? I tried to move a suitcase full of Penguin Classics once. Those expensive chocolate bars really are heavy. I remember thinking I should have filled it up with Sports Biscuits instead. ++ Did Ken's Dream win, Carsmile? I wasn't paying attention, I'm afraid. If it lived up to it's name, it probably just jumped about like a big pair of bouncing boobs. I'm off, Robin x [ by express delivery : http://www.superatomic.co.uk/blog ] _________________________________________________________________ Stay in touch with absent friends - get MSN Messenger http://messenger.msn.co.uk +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Reasons to be proud of
by Stefano [Steady-State] 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

Dear Sinister We tried. Some of us tried and we believed we could make it. We knew it was hard. But it was good to believe. It was good to have the feelings of being part of something big. Believing we could stop the country in which we are living, a country which in my case is not even my own one, if does any matter, to get into a reckless war. Being part of peaceful and democratic movement. We didnt make it, apparently. Arrogance won, as it is often happening, but that shouldnt stop us to show our disgust. If you feel like that, obviously. I used the word disgust, because I cant find a better one: I actually feel disgusted, on about the opinion of the many is being ignored and neglected, or even branded as lack of loyalty or cowardly or worst. And what is supposed to be called braveness? Bombing a country which almost hasnt got a proper army. Facing it with the most powerful military display since the Vietnam war (something which shown with a kind of bravado proud by the so-called alley alley to what?). They will be usually brave enough to drop bombs from the high sky, generally over people who are absolutely harmless, and have just the power to hope the bomb wont hit they house today, and keep the hope it is not going to happen tomorrow or the day after. Something to be proud of. Really. Are call causalities. Such a good word to mean slaughter. Hospitals, school, water lines, power centrals, causalities, they say. And now they are telling from the radio that the their bomb are much brighter then before. Such a nonsense. And they call tall on day that those people were hiding chemical, biological and even nuclear weapon. (All weapons that the US have more than any other country. Disarm them please. I fe! el a bit scared.) This is all look so brave. You should be proud looking back at all the good we have done to the Iraqi and middle-eastern people. Really really proud. Really really brave. I just feel a bit disgusted, indeed. I feel like I want to shout loud, bu And a tiny bit disgusted. I hope that we can make a decent sinister delegation to the march which is going to take place on Saturday, the 22nd*. The proud I feel of buy part of our occidental democracy. Yes, we rule the school. Take care, yours Stefano * if you feel like you want to come along please drop a note of least I will really apreciate it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll be careful when I drive 'cause I want to see her once before I die. ONQ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: "It does worry me when anybody gets killed, but life has to go on."
by jim taylor 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

this post was titled "*no apologies", until i heard a London commuter interviewed on TV just say this. priceless. killed? life? I want to write about other things. but i can't. "Music has a role to play in spreading the word of peace. I think it is a case of using music to articulate something that you don't find articulated in the mainstream media. The most important thing it does is create a community of dissent. You realise you are not the only person who feels completely opposed to the war. Or, there are a lot of people out there who feel ambiguous about it, and hopefully coming along to a march or hearing the songs might help them to make a conscious decision to oppose the war. That is the experience that I have had." jim predictably quotes a lefty singer (b.bragg). and wonders what songs we'll hear in glasgow. how overtly B&S will be influenced by events. there. almost non-war content. I've been doing lots of thinking about attitudes to the US and UK, and as i think i've suggested before, about how just as it is ridiculously fundamentalist to hate the US or UK, it is similarly simplistic to be 'proud' of the same. The US media/?public/corporate pressure against stars such as Martin Sheen and the Dixie Chicks etc etc speaking out scares me a little. How nobody was *allowed* to say anything at the one award ceremony by TV station bosses. I know its the corporate end of things, but one of the many issues that rankles is freeing the iraqi people to have human rights when things smell less free than they could be in the US. Clearly rights are enshrined in constitution etc, but how far are we from mccarthyism? (i'll save you the links re these but can provide). I'm proud B&S speak their views, and are able to. It felt good to be walking around Hackney (London) today seeing so many badges, posters in windows in people's homes, shops etc, knowing how many people have been bothered to express opposition to war. A greek colleague was speaking about London's merits including its liberal atmosphere. I have mixed feelings about my dirty inner city borough, but am looking to part-buy a house in it which is remarkably grown up. and expensive. Back in 2001 Liz Daplyn eloquently typed "Vandalised bus shelters are, conversely, not reminiscent of comforting blankets at all. They can be startlingly beautiful, though, what with scattered cubes of safety glass scattered around ('Hackney diamonds', I read somewhere) or crazed mandala patterns radiating from the focal points of not-quite-hard-enough blows and looking like imitations of gorgeous spiderwebs laid down by secret crafty hands. But it might just be me that likes them." This 'Hackney Diamond' thing sticks in your head. I walk passed said gems i think every day i go to work. that phrase has unusually limpet like properties. I mentioned it to my cousin who has since reproduced (also quite a grown up thing, and entirely irrelevant) and he spontaneously volunteered it's a ditty he can't help but be reminded of when he sees them. My plan is to eventually produce the next volume (booklet) of patients' poetry (i work in mental health) and use this as a bit of a concept for the work (hard, sharp, broken, precious etc etc you get the picture) maybe the title. So a very delayed thanks to Liz for the inspiration for that one. There aren't many good things about this whole thing. The awareness that my dear leader seems to have forced in the 'kids' [that skipped school and demonstrated around the country yesterday] may encourage a generation to take a greater interest in democracy. On cheerier notes, given the peace to enjoy it (or lack thereof and a need to resort to it) we live in a remarkably world, with some gorgeous music (+people & gestures.) I'm looking forward to a trip to Glasgee to see B&S folk and of course the gig. As well as hopefully the non-ATP-gathering: wonderful as i'll be getting corner-of-the-camber-sands-queen-vic-pub withdrawal symptoms round about then. I believe protesting now is as important as ever. looking at the bigger picture [and how think how remarkably quickly much of this will be forgotten for a majority] making as much noise and opposition makes it harder to resort to final measures such as military action in the future. I don't necessarily agree with the idea that you do things because you have to do *something* (though can relate to that) and like the fact people are considering the value of their actions. I've been tear gassed and risked riot police beatings at a demo overseas because it seemed the right thing to do, but in retrospect it achieved little beyond being a story to tell and was possibly foolish. Saturday in London (and throughout the UK i assume), will be peaceful and very important. I can only speak for myself in stating i feel i have a moral responsibility to be out on the street to represent my view. simple as that. and i like the fact that through sinister i know others that will do the same worldwide. as long as people like Mark have thought about their view (which he clearly has) then i think that's great. I haven't actually been able to find anyone that supports the war, so i was intrigued to read a non-print pro-war view. For me Robin Cook's rather skilful speech resignation speech summed it up. It's linked below in my original knee jerk rant. I didn't realise why road traffic was so bad as i noticed it, walking, the end of this afternoon. It's likely it was shoolkids blocking junctions, which allowing for a bit of majority influence/peer pressure/fashionable thing to do, means some young folk caring about what happens in the world. I'm usually more likely to be scared by hard kids. Makes a very nice change. Suggestions are it won't be as big on saturday as the 1 or 2 million, but i'm looking forward to seeing fellow B&S peaceniks on the march on saturday in London, get in touch to join us. So feel free to ignore the below bit (he naively hoped folk got this far!), which i wrote when i woke up at 5am. With a bit of the above content, it felt a bit *too* ranty on its own, but not irrelevant. It made me post to sinister, this here world event. What fascinating times we live in. i suppose i don't know where else i'd be (indulgently?) expressing myself. I can agree with Mark that Blair is doing what he thinks is right. But the trouble for me is, the wrong thing for the right reasons, that doesn't feel much better than Bush's wrong thing for not quite so honourable reasons. (again see rumsfeldy link below). It would be a marginally more hard argument to win if we (?Bush) hadn't set ourselves arbitrarily early deadlines and given Blix time. Hello sinister. music, i know. music and life though. x - - - - - - *see prior explanations/justifications/blah blah. Phew. I'm sleeping better in my bed tonight knowing that Saddam is less of a threat to my life than he was 4 hours ago. Except i'm not. I'm awake. I woke up to a looped shot of one cruise missile being fired in the dark. Did somebody say media orgy? And i'm consuming. http://www.indymedia.org/ provides some interesting alternative dishes, such as the link to PENTAGON THREATENS TO KILL INDEPENDENT REPORTERS IN IRAQ http://homepage.eircom.net/~gulufuture/news/kate_adie030310.htm. Thinking of alternative sources of information. The B&S fan in baghdad has his own blog http://dear_raed.blogspot.com/ OK i'm predictably lying (about the B&S fandom i assume), but he is a human being, and one who previously gave the best argument i've come across re: human shields... i did share the link with ian. the link never works for me (why?!), but googling + reading caches such as this does: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=cache:4D9u9ReRWt0C:dear_raed.blogspot.com/+ raed&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Oh hang on 5.14 am, official statement "this is not the start of war". Oh they're admitting it never stopped? No: Just an assassination attempt. Which is handy seeing as it seems the British military command didn't seem to know it was going to happen till it did. Robin Cook's Resignation speech Remember as a senior-ish cabinet member he had access to all those 'intelligence reports' that never existed. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2859431.stm re: motive The agenda that was aired up of course back in '98. Say no more.The Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz horse's mouth is contained herein. www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/022003Leopold/022003leopold.html ~ p e a c e & love ~ jim LOW "you can't trust violence" +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Only the dead fish go with the flow
by Mark Brading 20 Mar '03

20 Mar '03

Hello everyone, I have been lurking for far too long. Or rather... I have been lurking. What is the longest anyone has been reading the list; enjoying the list; without posting? Your posts have been brightening up my day for a long while now, & I feel really bad that my first post is going to disagree with most of the people on the list... ...so lets have some B&S content before we get down to business. I heard State I Am In on the radio, when they were offering Tigermilk for £8 if you sent an SAE. I wrote a cheque but never sent it. Idiot. Later, my girlfriend took me to the Shepherds Bush gig. It was dire - and I fell in love, with the girl, and with the band. After a while, I was head over heals in love with both, so I asked the girl to marry me... she said no. She went off with a German maths student - it was for the best, I was infatuated rather than in love. But B&S never went away, and I have been in love ever since. I have tickets for Glasgow... I'm counting the days. So, back to the matter in hand. Saddam had until 1am this morning to leave Iraq, or face war. In fact, even if he left, the US were going to attack anyway. Our government voted last night to allow our troops to take part in an invasion of Iraq against international law. Against global, nevermind domestic, opinion. Against a lack of evidence that Iraq has weapons that could attack anyone within 20 miles, nevermind 2000... And I support that invasion. Yes, I know this isn't a popular view on this list, but I support the war. I believe that Tony Blair is an intelligent man, and much as I may disagree with his domestic tactics, I think he's a good and just politician, and if he believes (and is prepared to stake his career) on this war, then I will support him. I hate war. I hate violence. I abhor the idea that we are, inevitably, about to kill innocent people. But I believe that if we stand by, then more innocent people will die. Given the chance, Saddam would destroy the world, as long as he was left in control of the ashes. I don't believe we are after oil, I don't believe we are after power. I believe we are after peace. The question is not 'should we go to war' - that's academic now. The question is 'what should we do when we win?'. To quote people more intelligent than me (and I'm not talking about Spiderman) - 'With great power comes great responsibility'. Whatever happens to Iraq now is in our hands. Let's hope we don't mess it up. Sorry to post so off-topic, and so controversial. But by the time you read this we'll probably be at war, and I thought that needed marking by somebody. May angels and ministers of grace defend us. Mark +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-+ Snipp snapp snut, sa var sagan slut! +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+

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