Has the world turned upside down dince I last looked out of the window? I'm fascinated to learn that looking 'fey and vulnerable' is now the definition of cool. And what's more, you can apparently get laid if you perfect the pose. Never worked for me - perhaps my collection of Sea Urchins 7"s is not up to scratch. Perhaps I skip over some posts without really reading them, but like teri, I can honestly say I've never really noticed a surfit of cutesy wootsie posts on Sinister. I don't know who these 'hardcore' fans are that Ciarán mentions, but if they're the Sinister 'old hands' that I'm thinking of, then I don't find them fluffy at all. Least of all FluffySarah - she's a gun totin' bitch from hell. I mean Preston. And anyway - you've got to remember that some people actually ARE shy and 'socially inept' - it's not a pose at all. What's wrong with them having a safe place to post where people don't get all confrontational and scare them off? God knows there are enough mailing lists and newsgroups where the atmosphere is like that - isn't it at least good to have somewhere that restores the balance a bit? Although I've never run one myself, I'd have thought it's a bloody difficult job running a list without it quickly descending into thoughtlessness and bullshit insult-trading. Obviously there's a balance to be struck, but I don't hink you could call Paul an overly dictatorial listowner. I might be wrong, Matthew, but I'd be really surprised if he has ticked anyone off just for 'arguing or debating'. I think, as the list rules say, that he just stops people if they start sounding aggressive (which really can upset people - I'm a pretty resilient sort but when I posted something soon after I'd joined that provoked a 'I hate this sort of shit' reply from someone I was genuinely quite shaken up). Or if they (often innocently) start an off-topic public thread that has all the hallmarks of spiralling out of control and clogging up the list (eg. 'What's everyone's favourite book/record?' ). Maybe half of the problem is that people just *imagine* their preferences or lifestyles don't fit into some mythical 'B&S ideal'. There was a guy (Linus TT, I think he called himself) who was in the chatroom last night who said to me 'Of course you don't like Pete Townshend'. I thought he was confusing me with someone else at first, but then it turned out he was just assuming that the Who were too ROCK for a B&S fan's carefully cultivated pop sensibilities. Ironically, arch WHO fan Keith was in the room (and it transpired that Keith liked their records well past the point Linus considered them to have gone too arena rock). Then they talked about Queen and Led Zep and Linus was thrilled at having his preconceptions popped. Or rocked. I thought Iain's post was pretty amusing too - although when I realised that he believed in the stereotypes he painted enough to leave the list in bitterness, it didn't seem so funny I reckon Isobel should be kicked out of Belle and Sebastian for being 'too Belle and Sebastian' - what does anyone else think? Nick "Ooh I just love Gregory's Girl and The Little Prince" Dastoor xxx +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+