Sorry for another war post if you get aggravated please stop here.... I'm always envious of everyone who protest or debate and has such a strong opinion about this whole Iraq mess. because I've been so wavering it's very disheartening. People say killing and violence are bad and they are. but what would you do if you saw a little kid being kicked by some roughs. You'd try to stop it. even if you had to hurt the roughs. Now i'm not saying that that analogy is appropiate for this topic but the idea behind it is. The idea that sometimes other people force you to violence. I wasn't thrilled about this from the begining because I don't really believe in the current administration, but oddly enough I was comforted by Tony Blair supporting it.. He's labour and he's always been accused of waffling (much like clinton was unjustly accused of) but he's really showing the courage of his convictions despite the serious risk if not the death of his political career. The Opposition from other governments didn't bother me either. I could explain away the french very easily as they'd be losing access to alot of very cheap oil. This war in iraq could cause problems for the US for years and years (say if the "new" country elects a fundamentalist leader) or it could actually stablize the region a little (if they elect a moderate democratic leader). either way afterward the iraqi oil should go to the iraqi people I don't think i'd lose any sleep if Saddam Hussein was arrestted or killed. He's more than shown his disregard for the human race. so at it's heart the goal of removing his government isn't one I can opposed harshly enough to protest against. Maybe i'm overly idealistic but i believe the US and UK armed forces aren't out to kill civillians. And please don't simplifiy arguements by chanting no blood for oil. This isn't an empire expanding exercise to gain more oil. there's plenty of oil in alaska and texas that the US hasn't even touched yet.. (thou' bush wants to drill in alaska bad bad) As much as I dislike Bush I do think he sees a wealthy (and that's where the oil comes in) Saddam Hussein as a threat, it might be wrong, Saddam Hussein might only be a threat to his own people, or his neighbors (If it came down to waiting for Iraq to invade a neighbor again I'd surely vote to wait...but then again I don't live in a neighboring country) but he's shown a psychotic side to him that wouldn't make it a stretch for him to sell very bad weapons who would use him, even if he wouldn't use them himself. There's book i read called "special providence" by Walter Russell Mead.. it's an interesting take on US foreign Policy and it breaks it up in four ways Jeffersonian - Leave the world alone, let's all farm and produce what we need without interphering or interacting with the rest of the world. very Isolationist.. My comments --this aspect is really deeply embedded in the psyche of americans, but it hasn't been used in practice since before World War I Jacksonian - The world is a bad place, people are out to get us, we must strike preemptively at threats to our way of life. MC -- this is what's going on now, September 11 really shocked alot of politicians mainly already conservative ones but Blair is an example of it's effect on liberal ones as well. This is the motivation in my opinion for the current Iraq war. Hamiltonian -- We need to encourage global trade and commerce and need to protect our interests abroad if they are threatened but main we should keep to ourselves. MC -- this is mainly what policy the US follows historically. Clinton was this with a bit of the next... Wilsonian -- We live by the best system in the world, we need to spread free market democracy everywhere we can, encourage it to grown and challenge it's opponents.. MC-- by far the most idealistic, helping the underdog ETC... I'm not sure why i'm rambling on like this... I know it doesn't make sense.. I've always been someone to try to consider all the other view points. and in this case I can't intrinsicly say which is right and which is wrong. .I guess in this world there's too much gray. thanks for reading if you...did. I'd love to hear from you.. sorry for clogging bandwidth. peace jeff.
From: sinkingpie <sinkingpie@yahoo.com> Reply-To: sinkingpie <sinkingpie@yahoo.com> To: sinister@missprint.org Subject: Sinister: How many people are feeling sinister now? Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:39:50 +0000 (GMT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from mc9-f13.bay6.hotmail.com ([65.54.166.20]) by mc9-s4.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:42:24 -0800 Received: from mail3.atl.registeredsite.com ([64.224.219.77]) by mc9-f13.bay6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.5600); Thu, 20 Mar 2003 11:42:23 -0800 Received: from missprint.org (missprint.org [216.122.88.147])by mail3.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h2KJeKvT009247;Thu, 20 Mar 2003 14:42:20 -0500 Received: from localhost (missprin@localhost)by missprint.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA24679;Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:40:11 GMT Received: by missprint.org (bulk_mailer v1.9); Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:39:54 +0000 Received: (from missprin@localhost)by missprint.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24614for a66403198; Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:39:53 GMT X-Message-Info: BVVQfv+dWoNGDvYIfOP2i6xEeqwdXnfJ Message-ID: <20030320193950.98785.qmail@web10006.mail.yahoo.com> Sender: owner-sinister@missprint.org List-Id: "Sinister Mailing List" <sinister.missprint.org> List-Help: <http://www.missprint.org/sinister>, <mailto:majordomo@missprint.org?Body=help> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:majordomo@missprint.org?Body=unsubscribe%20sinister> List-Subscribe: <mailto:majordomo@missprint.org?Body=subscribe%20sinister> List-Post: <mailto:sinister@missprint.org> List-Archive: <http://www.missprint.org/sinister/archive.html> List-Owner: <mailto:owner-sinister@missprint.org> X-Organisation: Miss Print's Printing House <http://www.missprint.org> X-List: Sinister x-mailing-list: sinister@majordomo.net Return-Path: owner-sinister@missprint.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Mar 2003 19:42:24.0046 (UTC) FILETIME=[D45614E0:01C2EF18]
"How many times must the cannonballs fly, before they're forever banned"
I feel an apology is in order to everyone, because this is another post that may slightly more than touch on the subject of war.
My views on this much discussed subject are simple. It seems to me that intentionally taking away the life of another human being is fundamentally wrong (certainly if they're unwilling, we can save euphanasia debates for a rainy day). Forget about hypocritical politicians, forget about oil, the simple fact is that people will die. By this, I mean all of the people that will die. Including those doing the killing in the first place.
A lot of people took part in both protests, and "protests" today where I live. During breaktime at school a number of people from other schools showed up, presumably in an attempt to increase their numbers (I suspect this may have been a "protest" rather than a protest). This didn't please the staff at my school much, neither did the ensuing attempt by a fairly small number of people deciding not to attend lessons. I do feel that these gestures were more to get out of lessons than due to an actual opposition to war, although that is of course a generalisation, and I'm sure some of the people were very genuine.
Three fire engines showed up shortly after this, after someone decided that setting the fire alarm off would be an excellent idea for a protest. I wasn't entirely convinced, and I have to think that a lesson on gas-liquid chromatography may have been more useful...
Reading through what I've just written, I fear I may not actually have said much, so I apologise for that. But I do think its important for everyone to let people know how they feel. Just hopefully in a more appropriate way than setting fire alarms off (rumours also suggested that protestors set fire to BHS, although I think that may be from rather unreliable sources, and quite what anit-war protestors have against BHS I don't know. any ideas anyone?).
Finally, on an entirely unrelated note, Ballboy are playing on John Peel tonight, and I do suggest that listening may be enjoyable (this isn't as unrelated to B&S as it may first appear, allow me to explain. Ballboy are fairly heavily influenced by hefner, and an early hefner single (or EP?) had someone from B&S (can't quite remember who) playing keyboards on the B-side. a tenuous link I agree).
Thanks for reading this, its a nice feeling that I may have shared my views with some other people (even if no-one reads this, I'll think they have). Perhaps our representatives in london will have a sudden change of heart. We live in hope.
The answer is blowing in the wind.
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