Hmmm, sorry Sarah, still think Manics stuff is shite, I have listened to it, I'm not just judging from outwards appearances, I've read almost all their interviews since from when they started too, and I think they're great like that, I still just don't like the band though. No 6th form shite in Belle and Sebastian, there's nothing pretentious floats around there - no sly references to Willem de Kooning or the like, at least, none which are not used in a damning way (c.f. Le Pastie) Still "Until I believe in my soul" by Dexy's is top, again, no "intelligent" reference points, just kind of what Kevin Rowland's good at, being very straight forward. Will love that record till the day I die. Oops, just remembered Burn it Down's stuffed full of references. Never mind, it's got a top brass break. That's what makes sense to me really, a lot of black music works this way, just being completely straight down the line, no need to have some prior knowledge of something to make sense of it which I like, cause it means it's likely to appeal to a broader range of people, not just rich kids who attended public schools in the south of England. There is the argument that it could get you interested in certain things which does hold some weight too, but personally I love the way Marvin Gaye says "War is hell, when will it end, when will people get together again". It's just a fucking great feeling. Cheers, Keith. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------