Why you!!! I Oughta......!!
Just because you are a fan, doesnt mean you renounce the right to criticise them.
I haven't
You dont bow to the mysterious forces which create the music, which is how I interpreted your comment (How would you know what her contribution is?).
I haven't...But you dont know what they're like when they write or rehearse together!! Have you ever been in a band.
In fact, people on the list have discussed Isobels contribution quite frequently, particularly in the light of her offering on the latest album, Beyond the Sunrise. A lot of folk commented on the fact that it seemed to sit uncomfortably (at least initially) on the album, and perhaps Loneliness of the Middle Distance Runner should have been there instead. There was also a good review of the album in the Independent (or it might have been the Guardian) which made this same point, and argued that ICs songs could upset the unity of B and S albums (I used the phrase organic wholeness which you obviously thought was poncey, but it was at least accurate).
Monkey says monkey does.....Have a 'considered' opinion of your own. It's not what HER songs are like its her input into stuarts songs...like everyone elses input into Stuarts songs. They add flesh to the bones. Whilst were on the Beatles comparison thing ...their method of writing was John or Paul turning up with a song and where the rest of the band would then pull it to bits saying it was shit and adding their pennies worth to flesh it out. A songwriter can only really claim the melody and the chord progression unless their multi-instrumentalists and can write the complete score for every instrument implicitly. And that is quite rare.
Indeed, far from me plucking the topic of Isobels contribution to B and S out of the air, as it were, I think the issue plainly suggests itself. Isobel obviously feels that she has an artistic vision which cannot be expressed through the voice of Belle and Sebastian, or she would not be in two (count them) other bands of her own where she takes a more prominent role viz the song-writing.
Oh its obvious is it?....How patronising can anyone get? Could it not be that these are songs that Belle and Sebastian as a group have rejected to go out and that Isobel would still like to be heard so she puts them out as gentle waves stuff. Because only the strongest songs...as mutually agreed by the band are put out!!! Who knows...Not you thats for sure?
This brings us to your other interesting question about the nature of an individuals contribution to a band.
Go on
You say that you might as well say Ringo spoiled the Beatles. I don't think he spoiled the Beatles, but I think most people would agree that his contribution to the band's output was overshadowed by the other members.
Perhaps most people not familiar to the rudiments of drumming. Try playing a set of beatles songs....Its physically tough if nothing else. Ringo despite the popular misconception was a strong drummer.
When a journalist asked Paul McCartney if he thought Ringo was the best drummer in the world, he quickly replied I dont think hes the best drummer in the Beatles.
Scouse wit.....Why did they replace Pete Best then and head hunt Ringo if he was such a shit drummer? Why did the journalist pose the question in the first place...Did you think of that??
He wasnt a particularly good drummer, and if youve heard his dismal musical offerings in the last few years, youll know hes not a good song-writer either.
Has anyone ever said he was a good song writer?? But his choice of what drums to put where in the songs changed them. He influenced greatly how those songs would be structured and formed.
History has judged that Lennon was probably the more inventive and talented songwriter of the band (Case for the prosecution: the entire Wings back catalogue).
Has history shown this indeed....Hmmm. Who says? I thought history couldn't separate them myself.
Lee Mavers was almost certainly the creative force in the Las (prosecution exhibits: the on-going calamity that is the Cast back-catalogue).
Thats why its taken mavers over 10 years to record a 2nd album is it?
Would the Happy Mondays really be any different without Bez, the Jimi Hendrix Experience be significantly different without Noel Redding, Oasis any better or worse without their old drummer.
You compare all the above like there is a common rule linking them! And there isn't? Bez was a only dancer for a start! So whats he got to do with anything?? And all Oasis drummers could be replaced by a 4/4 time drum machine! But someone like Chris Sharrock on drums...despite him not being the songwriter would completely change the sound of Oasis. Again have you ever been in a band and thrashed out a song...everyone has an input???
I suppose the idea of the pop band is quite strange in this respect. In most art forms, there is one person who is responsible for the work: the painter, the sculptor, the classical composer, the novelist, the architect, the playwright. But in a pop band, there seems to be a mixture: the single artist expressing his or her vision, and the group of artists collaborating to make the work together.
Exactly my point!! Now you're starting to make sense! And therefore you can't exclude Isobel...or anyone else from the overall sound of the band....whether its a matter of overlaying a harmony or arranging strings or a drummer filling in with ghost beats it all goes to forming the overall sound. I'm not talking about Isobels songs (which I think are fine too)I'm talking about her overall input. So everyone lay off her because none of us ....none of us...really know anything about how the songs all come together. But I have to say in my honest opinion when isobel harmonises or when strings kick in, its a safe bet that its HER input into a song of Stuarts that has unquestionably added to it. Long live B & S.............ALL OF THEM!!! Respek Andy _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister@missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo@missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "peculiarly deranged fanbase" "frighteningly named +-+ +-+ Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+