The title of this is particularly ironic. History follows people around on the whole. I'd like to make a few things clear. 1. This list is not about to turn into Lipgloss. As far as I'm concerned, it looks pretty lose-lose to me what's happened there, and I wouldn't run a list on either side of the split that happened there. It just wouldn't be any fun. The last time I took a look at Lipgloss, it was subject by about 30 or more replies to a pointless, unimaginative 4 page questionnaire about what was everyone's favourite colour. And then subsequent discussions about whether it was a good idea. 2. This list is not about to turn into a "discuss B&S only" list. That would be too dull for tears. Mike's missing the point here: the only thing to get elitist about is whether people don't think before sending. He's obvious not looked at the archives if he thinks anyone's talking about halcyon days when this list was more "on topic". Not the point at all. 3. All I know is this list has changed in character over the last month or so. I'm not sure why yet but I'm getting a better idea. If the Lipgloss split worked, then why did so many people join Sinister, if they did as Mike says? If they did, please don't bring any lessons from there here - we've been getting along in smashing style here for ages. This list is not run by an elite, it's run by ME, and I'm still being told, on the whole, I'm doing OK, although sometimes recently I'm wondering. 4. I don't think for ONE minute any of the longer-lasting members on this list are elitist. I don't think they want to talk about "just B&S". I think what they're talking about is an upping of the level of thought and care, and, yes, imagination taken when putting down your thoughts before sending. If anyone's being elitist I'd say I'd do something about it, but I know from past experience that I don't need to: there's too many sensible people here to allow crazy opinions on "true fans" and "let's keep the music to ourselves" to survive for long. I can't imagine anything more laughable bearing in mind what the band do. If you've just joined this list because you liked TBWTWAS and you haven't heard much else, then you're just as welcome as someone who lived with Mick Cooke in Istanbul in 1978, during his "harem" years. 5. How many times do I have to ask people not to send mails about the list TO the list? Mike, do you honestly think your mail won't provoke another set of replies back to the list all about list splits, elitism, content, rules etc? Do you think any of it will be new? How many lists do people need to be on and see dissipate until they understand the process and stop encouraging it, instead of having to move from list to list? People don't get expelled from the list for "critical views", but anyone pursuing this thread now will just get expelled because I'm sick to death of it, and if I don't it will be repeated ad infinitum every three weeks until we all leave through sheer boredom. I mean: look at this mail: it's boring as hell. 6. This list is run by one person: me. There are no other list owners. 7. If you want to change the way this list works mail ME. I do what the majority of people want. Please someone tell me if I'm right or wrong? Just don't expect any lengthy replies just now, reasons as before, but your comments will be weighed, honestly. I'd like some support here because I feel I'm in a trench. 8. New and old list members alike leave this topic alone now please, for the thousandth time, including whether the list is "any good anymore", and "how to improve it". It's a sure way to make sure it ends up as crap. Honey +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+