I've updated the list of Frequently Asked Questions for the mailing list quite a bit to stop them being so frequent - consider it a List Manifesto too. I'm posting it here so that when you are growled at for not reading it I have an excuse. Minor grrrs will result if you don't read it as this list is taking quite a bit of time to run. It's big - sorry - but please take a look, particularly at "Using The List". Let's keep this list special, ok, and forgive me for being so damn sensible for a minute. Oh and thanks to everyone who's suggested stuff for this. It's on the WWW at http://www.majordomo.net/sinister/faq.html Honeykisses xxx P.S. Search engine: Nick's right it only does very simple phrases so it might be hard to find Elvis - I'd suggest searching for "broccoli" as a search term - honestly. Try it. And yes one day I'll make the search engine better :) --- Belle and Sebastian Sinister Mailing List --- --- Frequently Asked Questions --- This is a list of questions for using the list. A list of frequently asked questions for Belle and Sebastian themselves can be found at the Fan Club Site at http://www.totalweb.co.uk/bluesoda/faq/faq.htm. I know this is a long list but please take time to read it before you use the list. Note that this has been updated significantly on the 24th March 1998. Please remember you can see this list at any time by going to the Sinister WWW page at: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister --- Index --- - Using the list - 1. How do I subscribe/unsubscribe from Sinister? 2. So I just send everything to "sinister@majordomo.net", yeah? 3. I'm getting fed up with all these messages, can I get them all together sometime instead? 4. Can I tell who is on the list? 5. I can't get off the stupid list - why the hell not? 6. I'm on the list but I've stopped getting any emails - what's happened?? --OR-- My list messages stopped and I get keep getting silly ones about a list called "bounces" - what's all this about? 7. I only just joined the list, can I see what's previously been sent? 8. Someone mentioned something on the list and I can't remember when or what they said - shall I ask again? 9. I need someone's email address from the list and I can't find it 10. When I send a reply to the list the address my mail program decides to send to if I don't change it is stupid! Why don't replies automatically go back to the list / the recipient only? - List content and rules - 11. So why can't anyone out there send any old junk to the list? 12. Brilliant! I can advertise my new band/floor cleaner/hygiene product to everyone on the list now! 13. OK so it's a music list then? 14. So what can we talk about on the list? 15. He/she's really winding me up, I'm going to slag them off something rotten... 16. What else do I have to remember? - Hints - 17. What is "Tigermilk" / what other recordings are there / who is in the band etc etc? 18. Hey I've found out Belle and Sebastian are releasing a single / playing a gig and no-one's mentioned it yet, I'm going to tell everyone... - About the list - 19. Who provides this list? Who says I can't do what I want on it? 20. What has the list got to do with Jeepster, the record company? 21. Do the band read the list? 22. Why bother with all this? - Using the list - 1. How do I subscribe/unsubscribe from Sinister? There are two addresses you need to remember to use the list: sinister@majordomo.net - this is the address to send messages to everyone on the list. Everything sent here goes to everyone - the list software makes a copy of your message and sends it on to everyone who is subscribed. You use this address everytime you want to mail information to the list. majordomo@majordomo.net - this is where you send mailing list requests i.e. subscribe/unsubscribes. Messages sent here don't go to the list but perform certain commands - they should be sent in the body of your message (i.e. first line) and not the subject line. There's not a person on the other end but a program which reads commands you send in your email and responds to them, so you need to type them exactly right. To subscribe to the list you need to send the following command: subscribe sinister and equally unsubscribe sinister to get off the list. It's important you understand the distinction between these two addresses. If you ever get really stuck and you have read the rest of this page, then just send a personal message to sinister-owner@ph.ed.ac.uk This gets through to a person i.e. me and I can sort it out but I'll pull a face if you haven't tried everything suggested here. 2. So I just send everything to "sinister@majordomo.net", yeah? No! Read again! Never send unsubscribe requests to the list itself (i.e. sinister@majordomo.net) but always to majordomo@majordomo.net!!! This is very important as you'll find people will want to throttle you if you send such messages to the list - it happens a lot and drives people mad. I may be able to put a block on these and chuck them away but I do not have the time to manual subscribe/unsubscribe people who get it wrong. 3. I'm getting fed up with all these messages, can I get them all together sometime instead? Yes, instead of subscribing to "sinister" you need to subscribe to "sinister-digest". This is a summarised version of the list every day once a day. Just follow the same rules as above, so just send the message: subscribe sinister-digest to: majordomo@majordomo.net Note the hyphen above, many people leave it out and it matters! Remember if you are changing to the digest to unsubscribe from the standard list. 4. Can I tell who is on the list? Yes. The first way is to click on the links on the main WWW page under "Joining". Here you can see the full email addresses of people on the main list, the digest, and a breakdown of who on the list is from which countries. If you can't get to the WWW you can still get a list by email: just send the command who sinister to majordomo@majordomo.net Equally you can get some info on the list be sending: info sinister but you'll probably just get the same as you're reading here. Again it is possible to retrieve files from the list via majordomo commands such as: index sinister and then get sinister <filename> This can be done for the digest version of the list too - but please don't bother if you are reading this from the WWW already! This service is pretty basic and will only contain some information included on these WWW pages for people without WWW access. If anyone falls into this category please let me know as I don't intend to update this much unless there's a need. 5. I can't get off the stupid list - why the hell not? Don't mail me until you've read this or I'll get a bit grumpy. There are several reasons why it doesn't work when you expect it to: (1). You're not on "sinister" but the digest version which is actually a separate list called "sinister-digest". You need to send an "unsubscribe sinister-digest" command. (2). Your mail program is sending out your email address in a slightly different format than before (maybe you changed programs). First you should check your subscription address by finding it in the correct list, using the "who" command or looking at the list from the top WWW page as described above. If you see your address still on the list then try: unsubscribe sinister email-address There'll be a slight delay while this kind of request gets approved but it'll be a lot quicker than waiting for me to sort it out manually. (3). You're actually off the list but mail is still dribbling through - again check the subscriber list from the WWW or using the "who" command. If none of this works and you're sure you're still on the list, then mail me, but send me the error you get when you try and unsubscribe. I can't do much without this. 6. I'm on the list but I've stopped getting any emails - what's happened?? --OR-- My list messages stopped and I get keep getting silly ones about a list called "bounces" - what's all this about? Often your service provider will have problems with it's email setup and mail to you from the list will bounce back to me. I get many of these a day and after mail has bounced once or twice you will be taken off the Sinister list or digest and put on another list called "bounces". It's only purpose is to keep trying you until it gets through, i.e. your email is fixed and you can see the problem. The next thing to do is read the message from bounces! It will tell you what to do. Basically you need to take yourself off the "bounces" list (to stop getting the reminders) and add yourself back on the "sinister" or "sinister-digest" as if you are a new user. If you were on the main list then you would send the following to majordomo@majordomo.net (not sinister@majordomo.net!): unsubscribe bounces subscribe sinister You should get confirmation back that this has worked. 7. I only just joined the list, can I see what's previously been sent? Yes there is an archive available on the WWW. Just point your browser to: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister/hypermail/current This is the current week's archive of messages. Follow the links from that page to see any week's messages on the list. 8. Someone mentioned something on the list and I can't remember when or what they said - shall I ask again? Well have a look in the archives first so you don't get told that it's been answered before. Use the "search" facility on the WWW site - you can find it at: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister/cgi-bin/sinister-search.cgi You can search for any word or series of words by typing them in the box and clicking on "Search Now!". This will search for the words you entered in the current weeks postings' subject or author fields - there are buttons to search all the text of messages and all weeks but bear in mind it will take a bit longer to search. 9. I need someone's email address from the list and I can't find it Use the "Search" above to look for their name in the archive. 10. When I send a reply to the list the address my mail program decides to send to if I don't change it is stupid! Why don't replies automatically go back to the list / the recipient only? The setting for this list is that a Reply-to field is not set. This means that for most mail programs replies will go back to the sender of the message rather than the list itself. This may or may not be the right behaviour for you, but is set as a most conservative and safest choice for the list. This is a fairly religious issue but here's a quick discussion why I have done it this way. Please digest users in particular remember that a reply to a message in the digest will not go to the list. It goes to "owner-sinister" which is a particular kind of black hole :) I get these sometimes and I'm afraid the list takes too much of my time to manual send stuff on. It'll get deleted very rapidly, so you'll just have to remember I'm afraid. The main reason is because it is generally seen as bad practice to do this,although it's quite widespread - see for instance http://www.unicom.com/FAQ/reply-to-harmful.html The reason for this isn't petty technical completeness but because it can cause very real problems - only in the last month my mailbox was filled with 900 copies of the same error message caused by a badly constructed mail program at the receiving end by someone on the list - some of the bigger corporations just don't abide by standard Internet mailing rules and their programs send errors back to the Reply-To field, which go back to the list and via the list back to the offending machine and... you can imagine. For people picking up their mail via dial-up I can only imagine the nightmares this would cause. - List content and rules - 11. So why can't anyone out there send any old junk to the list? Because you can only send to the list if you are a member (hopefully). <- Not now true unfortunately: it was too much to hope that all mail programs would sensibly send the same email address as the subscription address so it didn't work. This safety net has now been disabled, but please let me know if you think we are being troubled by outside submissions or junk email. I can however stop any specific person ever sending to the list again if they really abuse it. 12. Brilliant! I can advertise my new band/floor cleaner/hygiene product to everyone on the list now! Please please please don't abuse the list in this way. Anyone who consistently and unashamedly sends adverts to the list will be banned with no court of appeal. 13. OK so it's a music list then? Well - sort of - but remember it's a list for People who listen to Belle and Sebastian and it's very existence is centred around that idea. There are plenty of much more general music lists (e.g. "indiepop") which will be better suited to someone who wants to talk for hours about a particular genre. These other lists have many more resources behind them and are there for just that. Of course we're all going to talk about music/books/wallpaper we like but there's a balance to be struck. It's actually quite a hard balance to find so the best thing to do is watch the list for a while and see what people like. 14. So what can we talk about on the list? Anything vaguely connected with the band or with life as a fan of Belle and Sebastian, is OK. The list is the place where you'll hear any real news about Belle and Sebastian first, but it is also a place where people will tell stories about what's happened to them, if they think they're funny or relevant. Try and remember this: it's a list for Belle and Sebastian but more importantly about the lives of People Who Like Belle And Sebastian. If you want a low-volume news-only list for the band then don't join. You will get a lot of mail that isn't about latest releases, gigs, appearances etc., but instead about ourselves. The list goes right when it's lively, funny, interesting, touching, and sometimes even useful. The list goes wrong when people post irrelevancies, not-so-funny "clever" quips, or long discussions take place which would be more suited to another list (like discussions of the relative merits of a band unrelated to B&S). I may step in if we get a long long conversation about something interesting to only a tiny minority of the list - some people pay handsomely for their email and would not be pleased to receive a thousand messages about an obscure band from Wigan who once sounded a bit like the intro to one of Belle and Sebastian's songs. If you do receive a mail from me which asks you to stop posting to the list on a particular subject, or in a particular way, please don't be offended - I am just trying to keep this list running ok - but please do something about it. I have seen too many lists die as a result of losing sight of what they are for and why people liked them in the first place, and don't want the same to happen here, if it can be avoided. Please try and be sensitive to the majority of listeners (over 500 at the time of writing) and do not continue long threads on an unrelated subject - if you wish to divert widely from the issues related specifically to the band, then go to a more general list or pop along to www.liszt.com and join another list as well! Pet theories about whether Elvis is a cat or indeed a brussel sprout are however tolerated for a long time because they amuse your list administrator. 15. He/she's really winding me up, I'm going to slag them off something rotten... DO NOT FLAME PEOPLE OR BE ABUSIVE! I take this very seriously and will act accordingly - too many mailing lists have been ruined by arrogance or a quick temper by people who consider themselves "real fans" - a pathetic term. This mailing list is setup for everyone, especially new enthusiastic listeners who do not need to be abused and belittled. Please be helpful and if you can't think of anything nice to say go and do a jigsaw. Anyone who is consistently a real pain will be permanently removed. I am a naive kitten and I don't like fights on my list and I'll stop them - there are plenty of angry lists to go to if you want. If anyone feels they are being unfairly mistreated or have any other problems with the list please mail me rather than the list. I will sort out any such problems offline. This of course doesn't mean you can't express strong feelings strongly - in fact it's mandatory. But don't attack people, attack things. 16. What else do I have to remember? Please read these and remember. If someone consistently ignores these you might get a bit of a growl and in extreme cases I'll stop people posting if the happiness of the majority on the list demands it. * Don't send warnings about viruses to the list! You might be being friendly but 99.9% of these "virus warnings" are hoaxes - the only "virus" is the fact that you are passing it on, and everyone who knows will groan. If you see one of these and aren't sure then mail me and I will check for you. * Don't send lots of replies to separate messages on the list one after another. This doesn't seem to go down well. Proper behaviour is to hold back, read a few messages and bundle up your replies to them all in one big message for the day. * If you are replying to someone, take the time to edit the bits you are quoting from their message carefully and just quote a few lines. If you can't be bothered editing the message you are replying to, don't bother sending - laziness on your own part equates to over 500 people having to page through stuff they've read before. If you are adding fewer lines than you are quoting it's probably not worth sending either. * Don't send number games/quizzes/jokes to the list if you can help it please. Put a bit of yourself into your posts. * If you really need some information on something that other people may not want to know, please make sure you remember to tell people not to mail back to the list, but to you personally. If you think others might be interested, say you will post a summary of the mails you received. And, erm, do it. * Don't use the list for private mail to 5 people you know. Please help my server stay unclogged so this list can survive. * People will talk about a book or film or song or sandwich filling they love or hate. That's fine - but please don't just say "it's great" or "it's crap". Say why. Just because a lot of people tell me they get fed up with these. * Please don't send messages with attachments to the list. This may not be junk to you but there's still lots of people out there who don't use mail programs that know how to deal with anything but standard text. And please remember some of us use Unix etc. as a principle platform and so attachments in proprietary formats (like Microsoft Word) will just be plain unreadable. If anyone wants to share material that isn't in standard text format, or that's of significant size, that's fine - just send it to me and I will post it up on the WWW site. That way people get to choose to download it... * Don't fling any old message to the list or treat it like email to a few friends - it just doesn't translate on a massive scale and people will get irritated. Think before you send. The drill is: compose your message - hover your hand over the send button for 10 seconds - think: "would Cliff Richard send this?" - send. - Hints - 17. What is "Tigermilk" / what other recordings are there / who is in the band etc etc? This list of answers doesn't cover any of that - it's just guidelines for using the list itself. You can imagine that question like these get asked and answered all the time. There's a set of answers to questions like these on the Fan Club site at: http://www.totalweb.co.uk/bluesoda/faq/faq.htm Please make sure you read these if you're new before posting your question. 18. Hey I've found out Belle and Sebastian are releasing a single / playing a gig and no-one's mentioned it yet, I'm going to tell everyone... Well you may be right, but it's pretty likely you're not. There seems to be masses of people/shops out there who "know" about release dates/gigs before the band or record company do. To save everyone going out and booking plane tickets, I'd suggest you mail Katrina first at jeepster.uk@virgin.net to check before you post to the list. - About the list - 19. Who provides this list? Who says I can't do what I want on it? The resources to run this list are provided by my employer and it is not a guaranteed public service - I will do whatever is necessary to ensure its continued existence. If you want a completely unrestrained list where anyone can talk for weeks about anything, or a more constrained list that is moderated or band news only, then I'm afraid you'll have to go elsewhere. Hopefully (sorry) Belle and Sebastian won't become quite as popular as Take That so I will be able to keep it going on borrowed resources - but if it impacted too much I might have to withdraw it one day. To ensure it continues therefore it isn't a public resource in quite the same way a newsgroup is. So please be nice. 20. What has the list got to do with Jeepster, the record company? Nothing formally at all - although Jeepster are a friendly bunch and we'd all be lost without Katrina (from Jeepster)'s newsworthy quips and endless help. But the list isn't here to promote Jeepster, or indeed the band really, and we don't have to say only nice things about either of them. Nor is the list directly affiliated to David Kitchen's fan club, although he was fundamental in helping to set the list up and running it. I'm making these points just to say that it's a separate, strictly non-commercial meeting place - if you want fan club or record company comment then go straight to Katrina or David. 21. Do the band read the list? The answer is pretty much: yes, sporadically. The band have an office in Glasgow and a few members get Internet access elsewhere and they keep up with it on and off when it's interesting. Please don't let that inhibit anyone from saying anything - remember it's your list, not anyone elses. And don't expect an answer from the band to a query on the list - it's pretty unlikely. Mail them direct from the link to the band WWW pages on the Sinister top page. 22. Why bother with all this? Lists of frequently asked questions like this are usually formal and stuffy affairs so a personal note: I am a grumpy thirty-something who still refuses to listen to Eric Clapton or moan how good music was when he was 16 - it's hard though when we're surrounded by so much mediocrity, but we shouldn't kid ourselves it was any different 15 years ago. But when I heard Belle and Sebastian I jumped for joy at a band with genuine musical sense, charm, toughness and POPness. So this is still all about music. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Honey 24th March 1998 mailto:honey@Majordomo.net ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . Listen, this is pish, I think I'll leave -----------------------------------------------------------------------