Sinister: split enz (history always repeats)
In a message dated 11/27/98 03:32:06 AM, someone wrote: <<Hate to say it but it does seem to be pretty dull these days. The list was much better in the old days, when the fans were REAL and the people writing to the list were BETTER like when Moses used to pitch in with his comments about Stuart's early tracks like "Missed the bus lost my mess" . Liked Martin Horsefield's bit about casuals... etc.>> Right, I don't want to sound tooo elitist, but considering that there have been QUITE a few posts from listmembers whinging about how much better the list used to be and how awful the list is now (probably because of posts like this one that you're reading!), i do have a suggestion based on a real-life mailinglist experience which has actually worked: i'm one of the many members of Lipgloss (Pulp) mailing list who joined Sinister. On Lipgloss, a lot of the "old guard" used to whinge when they realized that they were no longer the only big Pulp fans out there; they weren't happy with the idea of more mega-Pulp fans. I know that some of them got upset when i started to copy "extremely rare" Pulp songs and gigs (i have about 150 pulp gigs on tape) for "anyone in lipgloss" (one of the elitists even emailed me and said something along the lines of "yo'ure letting all the good stuff out! geez! don't do it!" as if it was bad to share the rarer and harder-to-find Pulp tracks with other Pulp fans) - although most also got upset 'cause of how much more crowded Lipgloss due to all the newer Pulp fans who became fans because of Different Class and "Disco 2000" instead of being Pulp fans after hearing the _It_ album in 1984 or "I want you" in 1986/87. There were many posts having more to do with the idea of being a Pulp fan, rather than about how wonderful it is to hear "don't you know" or about watching "Butt Naked" program with Pulp. Topics expanded from Pulp-only to things in general, such as "i'm going to be in kalamazoo, MI for a couple of days, can anyone suggest some good record shops" or "ooh, has anyone heard Belle & Sebastien, they're soooo wonderful, you MUST hear them" or "can someone recommend a Blur album to listen to? I've never heard them but i've heard good things about them" etc etc. The point is this: the old guard elitist members went on to form their own mailing list for Pulp, which had a "Pulp-discussion-only" mantra, plus membership was screened. It seems to work out very well, because on Lipgloss we no longer have to deal with these elitist people whinging about the "good old days" of Lipgloss, and the elitists have their own list where they can discuss ONLY Pulp (even though there is also a lot of off-topic discussion there as well, big shocker!). And fans of Pulp who only want to discuss Pulp and nothing else can join their list (after the membership screening process) and also partake in the joys of discussing only Pulp on a Pulp mailing list. This HAS RESULTED overall in the classic "win-win-win" situation of negotations, where everyone is happy overall, where everyone wins. This is a good situation. No one loses. So I suggest that the Sinisterists who are fed up (with how this list has become) either form their own B&S list where they can screen the membership and monitor the discussion topics, so that they would be happy (and end the "i miss the good old days of Sinister" posts), OR they can petition Honey & the other listowners to expel people like me and the other new<er> list members who seem to occasionally (or frequently, i guess) discuss topics that are vaguely related to B&S (but I guess not COMPLETELY on topic for B&S) or who send posts that could have been answered in the FAQ. Or they can just expel me from the list i guess, so that critical posts such as these can be permanently unseen. Either way, this may result in a "win-win-win" situation that would make everyone happy. anyways, if for some reason i get expelled from the list, i'll forward the completed Tigermilk poll results to a Sinister member who is still on the list (probably one of the people who kindly participated in the poll) who can then forward them to the list. So far the numbers are astounding, in terms of who's paid what for Tigermilk, or what people are willing to pay. I almost fainted when i read some of those replies (thanks to everyone who's replied, and of course the poll deadline's not til dec 5 or something, so there's still time to reply) xox mike +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
The title of this is particularly ironic. History follows people around on the whole. I'd like to make a few things clear. 1. This list is not about to turn into Lipgloss. As far as I'm concerned, it looks pretty lose-lose to me what's happened there, and I wouldn't run a list on either side of the split that happened there. It just wouldn't be any fun. The last time I took a look at Lipgloss, it was subject by about 30 or more replies to a pointless, unimaginative 4 page questionnaire about what was everyone's favourite colour. And then subsequent discussions about whether it was a good idea. 2. This list is not about to turn into a "discuss B&S only" list. That would be too dull for tears. Mike's missing the point here: the only thing to get elitist about is whether people don't think before sending. He's obvious not looked at the archives if he thinks anyone's talking about halcyon days when this list was more "on topic". Not the point at all. 3. All I know is this list has changed in character over the last month or so. I'm not sure why yet but I'm getting a better idea. If the Lipgloss split worked, then why did so many people join Sinister, if they did as Mike says? If they did, please don't bring any lessons from there here - we've been getting along in smashing style here for ages. This list is not run by an elite, it's run by ME, and I'm still being told, on the whole, I'm doing OK, although sometimes recently I'm wondering. 4. I don't think for ONE minute any of the longer-lasting members on this list are elitist. I don't think they want to talk about "just B&S". I think what they're talking about is an upping of the level of thought and care, and, yes, imagination taken when putting down your thoughts before sending. If anyone's being elitist I'd say I'd do something about it, but I know from past experience that I don't need to: there's too many sensible people here to allow crazy opinions on "true fans" and "let's keep the music to ourselves" to survive for long. I can't imagine anything more laughable bearing in mind what the band do. If you've just joined this list because you liked TBWTWAS and you haven't heard much else, then you're just as welcome as someone who lived with Mick Cooke in Istanbul in 1978, during his "harem" years. 5. How many times do I have to ask people not to send mails about the list TO the list? Mike, do you honestly think your mail won't provoke another set of replies back to the list all about list splits, elitism, content, rules etc? Do you think any of it will be new? How many lists do people need to be on and see dissipate until they understand the process and stop encouraging it, instead of having to move from list to list? People don't get expelled from the list for "critical views", but anyone pursuing this thread now will just get expelled because I'm sick to death of it, and if I don't it will be repeated ad infinitum every three weeks until we all leave through sheer boredom. I mean: look at this mail: it's boring as hell. 6. This list is run by one person: me. There are no other list owners. 7. If you want to change the way this list works mail ME. I do what the majority of people want. Please someone tell me if I'm right or wrong? Just don't expect any lengthy replies just now, reasons as before, but your comments will be weighed, honestly. I'd like some support here because I feel I'm in a trench. 8. New and old list members alike leave this topic alone now please, for the thousandth time, including whether the list is "any good anymore", and "how to improve it". It's a sure way to make sure it ends up as crap. Honey +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
I wrote : <<Hate to say it but it does seem to be pretty dull these days. The list was much better in the old days, when the fans were REAL and the people writing to the list were BETTER like when Moses used to pitch in with his comments about Stuart's early tracks like "Missed the bus lost my mess" . Liked Martin Horsefield's bit about casuals... etc.>> Then someone else wrote quoting my bit above : <<Right, I don't want to sound tooo elitist, but considering that there have been QUITE a few posts from listmembers whinging about how much better the list used to be and how awful the list is now (probably because of posts like this one that you're reading!), i do have a suggestion based on a real-life mailinglist experience which has actually worked:>> Which I found funny, I don't think I've ever been accused of being an elitist before. Seems a bit strange given the nature of my quote. I mean I know some people might be a bit slow on the uptake, but as far as I remember, Moses never was on the Belle and Sebastian list - and I don't think Stuart writes songs about losing his mess, at least not without couching them in "being stuck to the sheets" style language. In any case, just to clarify, what I wrote above is a joke. Not serious, it's true the mailing list is clogged up with a lot of pointless posts, I mean, I'd be lying if I said otherwise, but in reality there's no greater percentage of shite than there ever was, just actually more of it now. I suppose when you get two hundred mails in your mailbox Ps : Just to clarify, in case people didn't read the Duke's message clearly enough - here's a summary - he's got the new EP Hey, I think this'll be the first time I've sent a mail to the list at the weekend. Cheers, Keith. In my CD Player : Nothing +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+
participants (3)
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GaoBest＠aol.com -
Honey -
Keith Watson