----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Carter" <p.carter@bathspa.ac.uk> To: "Something Sinister" <something_sinister@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 8:25 PM Subject: Fw: People who say they aren't indie when they really are to be cool are shite

----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Carter" <p.carter@bathspa.ac.uk> To: "jarkko frantila" <chamomile1@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 7:44 PM Subject: People who say they aren't indie when they really are to be cool are shite

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In answer to Miss JF's comments...

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There, I've said it. There's been some talk about indie do's and

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I thought I'd contribute something to the list.

All genres of music have their very own cliques. They think they are better than other people. But lately I've started to think that indie hipsters are maybe the worst of them all. Hand on your heart; Look into the mirror and say: "I do not sneer at people who dress like everyone else does." Were you able to do that? Were you honest? Could you ever go out with someone who doesn't have the right hairdo, the right clothes, the right albums in his/her cd- collection?

Most indiehipsters (well, maybe I could say "us", but more about that later) aren't actually bad people in such, just... closeminded. There's some hipsters who are truly evil in their heart (hello), but there's rotten and deceptive people everywhere in the world. But not being able to understand that there can be people who don't really give a rat's ass about 7- inch singles, that's just... Example: If I should say here that i really don't care much about gay people, what would your reaction be? Anger? Think about it: That's what the worst indiehipsters do. They don't care much about

and those

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people who are into that "crappy, mainstream music", do they?

Wooh there! You're saying that stating you don't care for gay people is like stating that you don't like people into mainstream?

Although I get your point, there are a couple of pretty glaring flaws in that statement

1. Do you think people choose to become gay? Do you really think it's a lifestyle choice in the same way as your listening habbits are? 2. Like it or not, with cliques come behaviour pattens. People who choose to dress and certain way, or listen to a certain kind of music tend to share common traits. This is the essence of cliquedom, and why, if you actually dig a bit deeper than the obvious, they are neccesary. Now, a guy walking down the street with a shaved head, a tattoo saying 'Fuck the police' and wearing a Limp Bizkit t-shirt may be the nicest in the world, but would you walk up to him and say hello? Would you expect a kid wearing a B&S t-shirt to be into violence? I didn't think so. Now, I'm not saying these stereotypes always hold water, but people who choose cliques often do so because they fit their mindset, and hence there is always an overlap between stereotype and the real world.

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As I write this, wearing faded, darkblue jeans, old Converse sneakers and a B&S- t-shirt, I know I look like an indiekid (sic). But I don't think my clothes or my cd-collection makes me somehow better than other people. Some people seem to think that wearing cardigans straight from the 70's is like a secret handshake between indiers (nice word!). No, that's just the image of yourself you give out to people. In my case, I just like the way they look on me. If someone feels like s/he knows me just because I wear the same clothes s/he does, two words for them: piss off.

They could have an idea about you though. Don't you choose the clothes you wear in order to reflect how you feel, and the values you relate to? Personally I've never worn flares or a duffel coat in my life, and I never will, but the doesn't mean I wouldn't recognise that I might have more in common with someone who did...

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I am not a better person because I listen to music that doesn't sell well.

It's more about being choosy about music, rather about not excepting anything with easy hooks that the media tell people to like. I don't

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most people really think about their music at all. Having said that, my best friend at University listens to Eminem and even bought a Limp Bizkit single, but I respect her taste more than a lot of 'indie' people because I don't actually think she's had it forced on her by anyone.

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I am not a better person because I wear these clothes.

I am not better because I have this hair.

I am not a better person than people who aren't a part of this list.

agreed.

Peter

p.s. There seems to be a disturbing number of 'indie' people claiming

dont's, think they

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like one, and only one, bad pop band in order to prove they aren't pretentious. These people are almost always the most pretentious.

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