From owner-sinister@majordomo.net Fri Oct 16 06:41:40 1998 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by envy.ph.ed.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16542; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:38:39 +0100 Received: by envy.ph.ed.ac.uk (bulk_mailer v1.9); Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:38:00 +0100 Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by envy.ph.ed.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA16436 for sinister-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:37:54 +0100 Received: from haymarket.ed.ac.uk (haymarket.ed.ac.uk [129.215.128.53]) by envy.ph.ed.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA16430 for <sinister@majordomo.net>; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:37:50 +0100 Received: from exchange1.abc.net.uk ([195.72.39.250]) by haymarket.ed.ac.uk (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id OAA12717 for <sinister@majordomo.net>; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:37:48 +0100 (BST) Received: from ncmserver.ncm.co.uk (mail1.ncm.co.uk [195.72.32.194]) by exchange1.abc.net.uk with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.1960.3) id VARZY5S2; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:45:12 +0100 Received: by NCMSERVER with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id <47CTD1DQ>; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:34:48 +0100 Message-ID: <704AE307AB53D2119EE300805F7DF755E2F7@NCMSERVER> From: Neil Dewhurst <NeilD@ncm.co.uk> To: "'sinister@majordomo.net'" <sinister@majordomo.net> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 14:34:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: Neil Dewhurst <NeilD@ncm.co.uk> X-List: Sinister

...although I think Locke (or it may be Hobbes) would disagree. According to Locke, man's natural state is war and conflict. His socio-political model is roughly, give or take a few interpretations and a bit of memory loss, as follows. This expands into a political model, where people in a society appreciate that they need rules to stop this kind of barbarity, so they club together and elect in some way an individual to rule them. Given the potentially evil nature of their leader they give him / her limited powers within which they can rule, so if their leader oversteps they get to oust them. - this is Locke , because the people have made a contract with the supreme. I think in the Hobbes model everyone is so loving and kind and naive that they just elect someone and decide that they're so trustworthy they give them unlimited power, probably because they weren't around when Lord Acton told the world that "power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely." - Hobby-boy is a bit confusing when it comes to the power of the supreme , because he wants the supreme to be an uber-man untouched by the laws he makes or by his subjects , but he doesnŽt say explicitly that the surpreme can do whatever he wants to ( one can protect oneself from injustice etc.etc. ) , nor that one elected , he can rule as long as it suits him , because he says that people can rebel , if society has reached the state of anarchy b`cuz the supreme was the power or person to prevent that from happening , so there is no difference in having a supreme , but he also says that the contract is a contract between the people (they surrender some of their rights to gain security ) and not between the people and the supreme as locky . whooooo....... any comments?????? Ciao !!!!!!

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