Sinister: Telling it how it is.... (Manc gigs)
This post is critical of B&S and technical. Read at your peril! Congratulations to Paul Clarke for daring to make 90% of the listees cry by saying that Saturday was shit. He is right - they were so bad I almost couldn't be arsed to go to the Sunday gig. He is also correct to say that if they're only going to play a handful of shows a year, the very least they could do is rehearse properly for them. I'm a concert promoter for a living and a lot of things worried me about the gigs.... The PA was shit. As was the company that supplied it and also the FOH engineer. On the Sunday, two people were sitting on a 100Amp 3 phase cable near to the C-Form / Camlock connectors. Not only is this highly dangerous, it also breaches Health and Safety regulations. As a rule, mains cables should be flown, but if they are laid across the floor, they need to be covered with a carpet or something similar. Someone, could easily have been killed by an electric shock the way the PA crew had left it. The idea of a circular stack is interesting but not very practical, especially with the hopeless engineers the band had employed. There were 'hotspots' all over the room which meant you had to walk around to find a good spot where you could see AND hear. Delay stacks in all four corners would have improved things as B&S are a very quiet band. Also, one stack doesn't allow for a stereo separation which might have helped relieve the tinny 'vocal PA' style sound. The PA boxes, aside from being underpowered, were useless for the type of music B&S play. Also, given that Stuart Murdoch has an unusual mic technique (ie. he stands about 4 inches away as though he is scared of it), I don't think a bog standard SM58 was the right choice. It made his voice sound thin and tinny. The sign of a good Front of House engineer is one who is constantly tweaking things. In a live situation, it is nigh on impossible to attain a 'perfect' sound as the variables are changing all the time. Belle and Sebastian's engineer seemed more concerned with taking photos and chatting to mates. They should have sacked him on the Saturday. All of this could be overcome by employing a reputable production manager and doing some proper pre-production rehearsals. It's not as if the band's schedule is killing them - they hardly do any promotional work at all - so they've got plenty of time to sort out the live situation. A production manager would ensure the PA is suitable for the band's sound, locate a decent FOH engineer, assist Stuart with his mic problems (the records are great so he obviously doesn't have a problem in the studio), get them some instrument techs to avoid a repetition of the cello debacle and basically shake them up. I don't want to see them running on stage shouting 'Hey Manchester - we're here to rock you' and playing a polished set with scripted intros to each song. That wouldn't be Belle And Sebastian. Hell, I don't even mind Stuart forgetting the words, that is all part of the appeal. What I do object to is paying twenty quid for two gigs where no thought has been given to the production of the show and someone is pocketing the cash from cutting corners. Maybe they should think about this and employ some professionals before they next venture out. If they don't, the live audiences will dwindle and they'll be back to playing libraries and cafes where no-one minds if it's shit because they've only paid three quid to get in. Mark ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark wrote:
This post is critical of B&S and technical. Read at your peril!
you want 'polished' 'professional' rock shows, go see radiohead or whoever is dull enough to really care. not that i'd have liked to be electrocuted, but hell, i can think of worse ways to die than at a belle & sebastian show ;-) you might think that if they have so much time on their hands they should sort out live 'problems', but frankly, i personally wonder why they should bother. you think the band have to do everything to please the fans? sod that... i'd much rather they pleased themselves. they have lives you know, and that's what makes their songs so special, because they don't spend all their time living some wanky rock'n'roll dream... or worrying about doing all the things 'right' so that they become hugely famous... and that's a big part of why i love the band so much. that they DON'T do all the things 'normally' and by the rock'n'roll rules. long may their 'incompetence' continue. keep the faith, duke -- Tangents On-Line http://www.virtual-pc.com/tangent/ Tangents On-Paper: PO Box 102, Exeter, EX2 4YL, UK tangent@mail.zynet.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello to all on this list !! I have just subscribed after finding the website and list by pure accident the other night. Also discovered the chatroom (under my pseudonym "Tintin") which was probably the most friendly chatroom I have had the fortune to visit. Looking forward to sharing all things B&S, as well as whatever else comes up, with you all. Have fun, David (AKA Tintin) PS Is it me, or are there a lot of people on the list from the Manchester area ?? -- David Walker The Walker Homepage And Guide To Bolton: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Towers/6411/ "Freedom Is A Myth." Patrick McGoohan. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Fri, 02 Jan 1998 20:46:02 +0000, you wrote:
you want 'polished' 'professional' rock shows, go see radiohead or whoever is dull enough to really care. not that i'd have liked to be electrocuted, but hell, i can think of worse ways to die than at a belle & sebastian show ;-)
Damn fucking right
you might think that if they have so much time on their hands they should sort out live 'problems', but frankly, i personally wonder why they should bother. you think the band have to do everything to please the fans? sod that... i'd much rather they pleased themselves. they have lives you know, and that's what makes their songs so special, because they don't spend all their time living some wanky rock'n'roll dream... or worrying about doing all the things 'right' so that they become hugely famous... and that's a big part of why i love the band so much. that they DON'T do all the things 'normally' and by the rock'n'roll rules.
Duke, this is the best mail you've ever written!
long may their 'incompetence' continue.
And do say me, Tag and Kinky
keep the faith,
I'll do my best, sweetheart. Love Svart Lucia ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
the duke of harringay wrote a load of shite:
you might think that if they have so much time on their hands they should sort out live 'problems', but frankly, i personally wonder why they should bother. you think the band have to do everything to please the fans? sod that... i'd much rather they pleased themselves. they have lives you know, and that's what makes their songs so special, because they don't spend all their time living some wanky rock'n'roll dream... or worrying about doing all the things 'right' so that they become hugely famous... and that's a big part of why i love the band so much. that they DON'T do all the things 'normally' and by the rock'n'roll rules.
long may their 'incompetence' continue.
keep the faith,
duke
What a stupid thing to say. Yeah, I paid TWENTY TWO pounds so they can piss about and enjoy themselves and put on a substandard show. Excuse me but *I* bought their fucking music and so did lots of other people...if we hadn't then they wouldn't even be PLAYING these fucking gigs, right? So I do expect more than an amateur show. Saturday was rubbish, Sunday was ace. It shouldn't have been this way. If they don't please their fans then they won't HAVE fans, just fools like you who defend everything they do, because "they have lives you know" and because they "DON'T do all the things 'normally'". goodnight JJ ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
#On Sat, 03 Jan 1998 01:26:32 +0000, you wrote:
the duke of harringay wrote a load of shite:
Hahahahaha! I love a good row
you might think that if they have so much time on their hands they should sort out live 'problems', but frankly, i personally wonder why they should bother. you think the band have to do everything to please the fans? sod that... i'd much rather they pleased themselves. they have lives you know, and that's what makes their songs so special, because they don't spend all their time living some wanky rock'n'roll dream... or worrying about doing all the things 'right' so that they become hugely famous... and that's a big part of why i love the band so much. that they DON'T do all the things 'normally' and by the rock'n'roll rules.
What a stupid thing to say. Yeah, I paid TWENTY TWO pounds so they can piss about and enjoy themselves and put on a substandard show.
I really sincerely believe that they weren't taking the piss and that they tried to put on the best show they could.
Excuse me but *I* bought their fucking music and so did lots of other people...if we hadn't then they wouldn't even be PLAYING these fucking gigs, right? So I do expect more than an amateur show. Saturday was rubbish, Sunday was ace. It shouldn't have been this way. If they don't please their fans then they won't HAVE fans, just fools like you who defend everything they do, because "they have lives you know" and because they "DON'T do all the things 'normally'".
Now what can I say - I'm in a quandry here. I guess I was lucky enough to sit in one of those 'hot spots' mentioned earlier and all thru Saturday I knew I was going to see the Sunday so I guess I'm in no position to pontificate. BUT I do know a lot of people who were disappointed in Saturday's performance - I can only put it down to a degree of naivity on the band's part, and the fact they took a risk with the arrangement they tried. But in their favour - at least they *did* try to do something unconventional and it did pay off in the end altho I doubt that's any consolation to those who went to Saturday only. Apparently Stephen Wells came to the matinee and stood all through with a sneer and folded arms. A slagging awaits. Whose side are YOU on? Love Tag xx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, John Jackson wrote:
the duke of harringay wrote a load of shite:
Ok... (sound of offstage giggling) - let's calm it down a little please. Strong opinions very welcome but gratuitous insults are not. JJ and duke, you know I love you dearly and this isn't a dig. You can also tell I half agree with both of you from my last postings. For everyone else: a Welcome To Sinister 1998 message, a little overdue from Paul your list admin guy who gets a kicking for these little hints to be nice. It says here that there are a staggering 427 people on the list now, which is such a great increase I'm off to check my software - this'll include a few dead accounts which I will clear out when I get a min. But for everyone new and old hands: happy new year and well done for winning a mailing list award which is all your doing. Thing is, I want to keep it this way. I know a few of you hate intervention but to newcomers: 1. Please read the WWW pages: URL at the bottom of every message. 2. Please remember this is a B&S list - this doesn't mean every message needs to contain a reference to Chris Geddes' underpants, but just - well remember there's a sort of focus around which we all revolve. 3. I'm not going to let this list descend into squabbles - one of the amazing things about meeting people at the concert was how bloody nice you all were! So keep it that way, there's a strong community spirit here, and I have plans to buy up a row of houses and move in with you all. However strong opinions and eccentric arse are strongly encouraged on the list - take your lead from the old-timers. 4. Mail me at owner-sinister@majordomo.net if you ever get stuck with the list, or feel things aren't going the way you want them too. Majority opinions hold sway. Erm - that's it. Be nice to each other, marry, have babies and have a nice 1998. Honey xxx ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
honeypaul darling, hows about we get married and you have all the babies? and you know the offspring of the _really_ devoted fans will be born clutching copies of tigermilk (tigreleche) or, erm, something. and let's buy rowhouses or an old hotel or something, then we'll all be neighbors and the teabags can save on phone bills!!!! anyway, hope you all had a lovely holiday and sod all you cheecky peeps who partied at manchester....;) love and mushy lipsticky kisses to all 427, laurel ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Honey wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, John Jackson wrote:
the duke of harringay wrote a load of shite:
for all of you new here, that's my trademark. writing a load of shite. i practise very hard you know.
Ok... (sound of offstage giggling) - let's calm it down a little please. Strong opinions very welcome but gratuitous insults are not.
don't recall making any gratuitous insults, but hey! i can oblige if you insist. as an addition to the thread about manchester and 'incompetence', well i think there's a few more things to be added. firstly to say that actually, i've never been that good about distinguishing between the 'music' and the appeal of the Pop group. i've said this a million times probably so won't say any more except that in the show situation, i take into account lots of factors, like who i meet, where the show is held, what i do before and after. it's an EVENT, it's a part of my life. the actual performance by a Pop group is only one part of that experience. reading a few other people's reviews of saturday, they sound like they had a great time despite the fact that the group sounded, by their own admission, pants. i think that's really important, because there's much more to loving a Pop group than just liking what they sound like. like what i said in my own review: lots of smiling faces and lots of earnest looking young boys (men, whatver). the earnest young men (i'm being general because it usually IS males) miss a lot of the fun potential. i should know, cos i used to worse than most. secondly, um what else did John say: 'Yeah, I paid TWENTY TWO pounds so they can piss about and enjoy themselves and put on a substandard show.' well i don't think they intentionally piss about, it just happens :-) and if you think it sucks, you can leave, feel pissed off and go discover something else that doesn't piss you off. i saw The Smiths play on the queen is dead tour, and they sounded dire, so i walked out. okay, i 'wasted' some money, and i never liked the band much after that, but hell, that was fair enough. i saw Stockholm Monsters support and realised that there were other exciting groups to obsess over. i'd had several years of smiths obsession and saw them play amazing shows on several occasions, so i wasn't too bothered. i just moved on. john also said: 'If they don't please their fans then they won't HAVE fans, just fools like you who defend everything they do, because "they have lives you know" and because they "DON'T do all the things 'normally'".' yikes, it's official then, i'm a fool. if it's of any interest to you, the duchess agrees with you, she 'sees' my point but doesn't 'respect' it! ha ha. i'm an unrespected fool. great start to 1998. but do i care, oh no... i actually don't defend everything they do anyway. i thought that the 'Sinister' songs on sunday night were largely lacking in sparkle and sounded flat. i said this in my review and i told Stuart Murdoch as well. so maybe i am a fool... And do they care about having lots of fans, or do they care more about making recordings that they are proud of? i'm not a member of the band so can't answer it, but if they DO care a whole lot about making (and keeping) lots of fans, maybe they DO need to polish up their live shows. The answer is in their hands.
2. Please remember this is a B&S list - this doesn't mean every message needs to contain a reference to Chris Geddes' underpants,
perhaps we can have a seperate list dedicated to Chris' underwear?
3. I'm not going to let this list descend into squabbles - one of the amazing things about meeting people at the concert was how bloody nice you all were!
ah but paul, you never got to meet me! in fact not many did... probably because i was wandering about being an unrespected fool talking a load of shite.
strong opinions and eccentric arse are strongly encouraged on the list - take your lead from the old-timers.
so now i'm not just an unrespected fool who writes shite, but i'm OLD as well. hey, 1998 is going to be great ;-)
Majority opinions hold sway.
except when they're wrong, i.e. i don't agree with them.
Erm - that's it. Be nice to each other, marry, have babies and have a nice 1998.
be mean and moody, have sordid affairs, avoid children at all costs... then you'll have a great 1998. so that's me fucked then. keep the faith the duke "What do I care what impression I make on people? Its because we waste our lives caring about other people that most of us remain morons." (Colin Wilson) -- Tangents On-Line http://www.virtual-pc.com/tangent/ Tangents On-Paper: PO Box 102, Exeter, EX2 4YL, UK tangent@mail.zynet.co.uk ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
the duke of harringay wrote:
Honey wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, John Jackson wrote:
the duke of harringay wrote a load of shite:
He marched it up to the top of the hill and he marched it down againAnd when it was shite it was shite, and when it was shite it was shite And when it was only halfway shite it was neither ship nor sheep.
for all of you new here, that's my trademark. writing a load of shite. i practise very hard you know.
Good on you Duke. I applaud your shite. I enjoy your shite. I enjoy everybody's shite. I sometimes feel that I'm going to have trouble pulling my own weight, shite-wise, given the staggeringly high quality of other people's shite. But I will keep the faith and keep on churning out shite until I am forcibly stopped. Unless I decide otherwise. Can't really comment on the shiteness or otherwise of the Manchester performances, but I would gladly bet my bobble hat that they weren't pissing about on purpose just to annoy people. Anybody can have an off night, even Michael Bolton. It can be very disappointing, as can a piss-poor football match or Alien 4. Is the Front of House manager the bloke who twiddles the knobs on the sound desk or whatever it's called? If so, I watched the one in charge of the Barcelona concert for a while, and thought to myself "what a sterling job that fellow's doing". I think they had imported him specially, but I don't know if it's the same one as in Manchester. Specs, looked like my old boss Frank.
. i thought that the 'Sinister' songs on sunday night were largely lacking in sparkle and sounded flat. i said this in my review and i told Stuart Murdoch as well.
What did he say?
so maybe i am a fool... And do they care about having lots of fans, or do they care more about making recordings that they are proud of? i'm not a member of the band so can't answer it, but if they DO care a whole lot about making (and keeping) lots of fans, maybe they DO need to polish up their live shows. The answer is in their hands.
Obviously something like a radiohead support slot would help smooth things out, but I personally suspect that it would take away some of the sparkle, make it all seem a lot more like work. It's none of my business really. I wish I had something of consequence to say on the matter. Continuing in a Duke vein, I have been brushing up my popology over the holidays by reading Nik Cohn's book Awopbopalopbopalopbopalopbombamboo! What an entertaining read it is! I particularly enjoyed his unrestarained championing of Jimmy Saville. I hope to be able to join in the next pop/rock debate with renewed vigour. I also listened to Tigermilk. It's better than I thought it was, even though my favourite member, Sarah, is not on it. Peter ----------------------------------------------------------------------- . This message was brought to you by the Sinister mailing list. . To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". . For subscribing, unsubscribing and other list information please see . http://www.majordomo.net/sinister . For questions about how the list works mail owner-sinister@majordomo.net . We're all happy bunnies humming happy bunny tunes. Aren't we? -----------------------------------------------------------------------
participants (8)
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the duke of harringay