I totally fubared that last sinister message, so I beg your forgiveness for the blanky. Hre it goes for real: Like Rachel, I really, really tried to stay out of this one 'cause I figured I wouldn't have anything of value to add to the debate. Well, useless or not, I think its time I said my peice. No offense to anyone on the list, but I find it ludicrous that because someone listens to the Velvet Underground, their opinions are more highly respected than the Rod Stewart fan. It should be about the motivation and the passion for the music as opposed to what the music is, or whos playing it. I mean, you can't honestly divine what a person gets out of Limp Bizkit, and if you can and you dismiss him on this assumption, than you're being more ignorant than that person anyway. Like when Elliott Smith played the Academy Awards last year, all these indie kids came up to him afterwards and were like "I can't believe they made you hold Celine Dion's hand" and he was like "Well, she happens to be a very nice person and alot more openminded than you're being right now. You're in a very backwards position, you should rethink it." I don't detect any of that on this list most of the time, but go to any indie club like the Black Cat in DC and you'll see these indie scenesters in full effect. Its really quite snobbish to assume that because you were the only person in your zip code to buy the Rites of Spring LP from 1985 (mail order via Dischord of course, because retail is way to depressing and not nearly indie cool enough), that you've been moved in a way that people who love Sixpence None the Richer can't appreciate. Music is music, and if throwing an unknown band into a conversation just to make yourself look alot smarter is your idea of cool, then you're in a bad way. I personally hate 99% of what is played on the radio stations, but if some Lit song gives a 15-year-old the same misty-eyes that Maggie May gives me, well, than where's the problem? Its become sadly evident that punk/indie rock has totally become a cartoon of itself. It started out as an alternative to the cock-rock club that Led Zeppelin and others had started and now, its even more exclusive than the regime it set out to fight, and thats pretty sad. The VU and such weren't playing their music so people in SoHo would stop and say "whoa thats really obtuse!", they were playing it because people then weren't making the kind of music they wanted to hear and they wanted to bring like-minded people some joy. Maybe some of them did want to start some sick club, but how is that part of the solution anyway? If someone truly loves the music they listen to, and if they have a passion for it, then thats who's opinion I trust, not someone who listens to indie bands just so they make sure they're among the "in" crowd. Be it Ida or Barry Manilow, just make it mean something. I'm really sorry to rant, and again I don't want this construed as anything personal because I was speaking less about this list than the general state of indie rock. Um...ok...sorry again Steve C. +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+