dear list, oh this is long...but these great posts from sandra,anastasoa and heather just get me thinking..my thoughts all in a jumble..it may be hard to understand me,there's a million things to say... Anastasia wrote:

question: do we think these movements exist at all anymore, or even have any reason to? i think these subcultures exist, but the things that motivate them, if there even are any motivations, are completely different than the motivations of the groups are parents belonged to.

well,honestly..i don't think there is a big big movement with belle and sebastian type youth...well,maybe there is in little unknown ways... if there was a youth thing going on in the 90's..it's got to be the skaters...there's so many,if they all got to together! but i do not think there is a movement really...i mean,if they really wanted to rebel against something,yes certainly they have got VERY important things,not just your parents values..like maybe how we're destroying our earth?...seriously..i mean a lot good going 'fuck society man! i'm a rebel!' when you might not have clean water to drink...or fresh air to breathe,i think it's so sad,when even the most beautiful,pristine places of wilderness on earth have smog in the air floated over from other cities...rebelling against mass-consumption...it would take lots of people and unfortunatley,that big number of teenagers are the ones who just contribute more and more buy falling for the commericals,this image that they are supposed to be ("selling ourselves to ourselves")buying every tommy hifiger,nike prouduct etc. i can't really talk with knowledge about the other groups,the mods and punks etc (and teddy boys? hee hee "meet me after school,the teddy boys are going to kick your ass" hee) but the one thing i find kinda fake in all these groups is the importance of what you wear how you look..you get loads of piercings and tattoos and spike your hair and THAT'S why your a rebel? or you wear a short skirt? or whateve..i mean if you like that look,FINE..but so many define their whole soul around an image..and if you do that,it must be a kinda shallow movement? and sometimes..i wonder..what are we going to look like in history books? i mean,as much as i love some of my music..i know it's not going to be around in 50 or 100 years from now,I used to always think my father was being a classical-music snob person..when he told me that.. i'd be like"can't i just enjoy the moment without worrying if it's going to be remembered etc" but isn't that one of the problems,living too much for now? buying the most popular things,the hottest thing,the next biggest thing etc...i mean you could say there are movements everywhere,there's always strikes and rallys but sometimes i think people are a little too quick to jump and say their rights are being infringed...but what about the planet being infringed? it's all connected (the big corporate companies who don't care about pollution...that could be a big record company vs little independant one)and if anyone cares about the earth,they get labeled a hippy-freak? i mean it's fine to sit back and write brilliant essays and editorials stating exactly what's wrong...but it's another thing to go out there and DO something. I'm not saying this what ALL the kids are like...but just from my own experiences,and friends and people around me..most of them are too drugged up to even notice,or they fall for the newspaper article stating 'everything is ok'. heather:

This is what I consider to be so interesting about this movement, it's niceness. Please, someone, explain this to me. Are the hugs, fuzzy sweaters, comeraderie with one's parents all a symbol of a greater cultural fear of the millenial unknown, or is this for real? I love the music, but I'd like to solve the mystery of the seemingly docile youth who follow it.

i don't think they are really docile..i mean would not exactly call my relationship with my parents very comeraderie,my halo isn't exactly gleaming..i mean sure we share little stories on here,but there's a lot of darkness that people just aren't going to see...but again,maybe elsewhere these fuzzy sweater people are like that,i can only speak from what i do and see. sandra wrote:

Personally, I don't think a movement has to be about rebellion/politics.

exactly! i mean,when anger my parents,it's through other things,not by coming home with a mohawk and a bullring nose ring and chanting 'Satan! Satan!'..i mean sure i could do that,but what would that prove honestly?i think people should stop worring about labels and groups and trying to define everything so neatly maybe one day a youth movement will wake up and rebel against something that's really worth it you know? it's so strange today...there's much more violence etc,and yet at the same time we have it so easy...we've grown used to just sitting back and being entertained...how boring it must be,so empty and no substance Ok...i'm not sure this had anythign to do with the original discussion...pop and belle and sebastian? and i'm not this big eco-warrior freak,i just worry. love, genevieve ______________________________________________________ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+