At 12:24 PM 5/22/99 -0700, you wrote:

I saw the 'glad to be gay' message from rebelstrange on 5/21 and thought I'd drop a brief (?) line.

This whole 'gay community' thing, aside from the political belief that we must have legal recourse to guarantee that we are not fired or denied housing or harassed or threatened, is for the fucking birds. I have gay friends, I have straight friends, but I don't care in the least about gay/straight and neither do they. Maybe it's different for the girls, but for the boys (I'm 23, so maybe I can only speak about the 20-something boys), there seems to be nothing but cheapness, tawdriness, anti-love, anti-feelings, false machismo, etc, in our 'scene'. Going to gaybars is sickeningly similar to going to a college fraternity house where everybody is interested only in preening, asserting their superiority, and drinking/fucking. It's like a bunch of typically heterofratboys allowed to go out of control, all the aggression and 'masculinity' entirely out of balance. Some ferocity and aggression have their place, in girls and in boys, but surely not without some value placed on love, affection, consideration and kindness? It's a sad day when the most visible and vocal parts of your local gay (male? again, I can only speak for my experience) community are intent on erasing their vulnerability, anything 'feminine', from themselves, and I believe that's the day we're living in, at least here in Portland (Oregon, USA).... I'm sure none of us are overly concerned with our genders or sexual orientations, accepting of all of them. The things that bind us are so much deeper and more beautiful than gender/sex, which are only issues because of the cruel and stupid people of the world, anyway. If it's a surprise to anybody that there are a lot of queer boys who are into Belle & Sebastian, I'd say it's nothing but the most pleasant kind of surprise, I'm sure there are throngs of us who aren't obsessed with the macho posturing or the bitchy competitiveness, who in fact need an antidote. I've decided that the next guy I date MUST be into Belle & Sebastian, I really believe it says a lot (not everything, of course, but maybe enough?) about a person.

I have to agree with Chris on every count or point he is making here. I also want to use this opportunity while the subject is still ripe to explain my own position. So if you aren't in the mood to hear a personal account of sexuality you should probably stop reading. First of all, I know there are a lot of gay men and women who despise the concept of being "bi" and deny it's validity altogether (I also know that being "bi" is threatening to heterosexuals and homosexuals because it adds a whole gender to the already risky business of finding a honest and faithful mate, and it also dictates that being gay or not is a choice...and as far as I see it for some it is a combination of choice, emotion, background, and pre-destination for lack of a better word, and for others it is who they are, period) I however consider myself a bi-sexual for many well-thought out reasons. I am, first off, attracted to women as a gender whole and I respect and admire many things that are for the most part exclusive to that gender. I find myself undeniably attracted to women physically and spiritually and I feel it is not simply because it has been bred into me by the atmosphere of my upbringing. I also, however, am attracted to many guys I see (a relatively smaller number) but I find my attraction towards guys to be a combination of physical attraction and compatibility. With males, though, I find it harder to separate the two areas of appeal, I mean I can't date one without the combination of at least decent looks (I am by no means so conceited as to say I have to have a good looking guy) and common interests. I think as far as females are concerned I would like to only be attracted to the complete package (looks+personality) but it is usually one or the other, hardly ever both. Oh, I am going off on a tangent here and I hope I haven't offended anyone so far. I have been to a few gay bars and as Chris mentioned, they are as bad and in my opinion worse than your typical hetero bars. There is a constant vibe of promiscuity throughout them that gives the "newcomer" (no pun intended) a very uncomfortable position. I would like to find a guy that I can stay with for an extended period of time, but as long as the gay male community continues in this fashion I fear I cannot make the first effort to "court" as they say. The comfortability (if that's a word) of being hetero prevents me from making that leap if it is into a heaping pit of over-sexed, unfaithful mates. I know that there are plenty of unfaithful females out there, but for the most part they have not been in my experiences. I guess the bottom line is I am bi because I still like females and the jump to being solely gay seems too risky. If I were to ever find that "right" person if he or she does indeed exist I would faithful to my death bed or until we separated, regardless of the presence of another gender to be attracted to. My primary reason for writing this other than a little disclosure in the vain of self-therapy I know there are guys out there who are probably in the same boat as I am in. This subject has, as I am sure, had plenty of over-discussion in the individual listee's private circles, but I have yet had the chance to voice my position so I hope I haven't bored or annoyed anyone by writing in length on this. I'm sure many of you will read some psychological issues behind my statements, and if you want to discuss them in private I would prefer that to airing it for the list to suffer through. Now that I look back on it, Chris put most of what I just said much more simply but at the same time more beautifully, the distinctions I am trying in vain to make wouldn't not be necessary if it weren't for this society. Take everyone, and thank you to those who read this far :o) Justin W Felonius Monk P.S. I guess the ultimate question for me would be if I met one guy and one girl to whom I was equally attracted, physically and mentally, who would I choose? That would be the question to answer my "true" sexuality, yes? Well I would have to be in that circumstance to answer, sorry :) "Often I tried the frightening way of "reality," Where things that count are profession, law, fashion, finance, But disillusioned and freed I fled away alone To the other side, the place of dreams and blessed folly." - Hermann Hesse, Wandering +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+