Esosoft, Topica, list administrators, list users -- I think I can honestly say that I've never in my whole life felt so betrayed by a provider of Internet services as I do today by Esosoft having read and re-read with astonishment their mail cheekily entitled "Your Esosoft Mailing Lists now Free!". I expect this mail may well be blocked by Esosoft at least to their own MLA list, but I'm sending it anyway, and I'll send it on to whoever else I feel might have an interest in this, including subscribers to the MLA list, and other internet communities and providers. I'm sending it to my own 1000 subscribers now too, with a covering note to explain what it's about. As a UK subscriber, I received this email message at 5am this morning; by 9pm local time, my list has been "moved", all my local software has become non-functional which relies on Majordomo software responses, and all my WWW subscribe/unsubscribe and list help documentation has been rendered useless. My list subscribers get a confusing Topica mail message which contradicts everything on the WWW sites and the whole list is in complete confusion. This is *completely unacceptable* and I demand a return of my mailing list to the state it was in yesterday, and the state in which I paid for it IMMEDIATELY, pending the further comments below. I've spent literally months of effort tailoring my WWW pages, my instructions to users, automating message handling, automating approval mechanisms, automating the nopost system to my own advantage, writing autoreply messages to users with incorrect email addresses, HTML senders etc etc., all centred around the Majordomo system, and many of which are based on Esosoft's own enhancements. I can see now what a tragic mistake that was, based on a belief in service provision that's been shown to be woefully naive. I expect a provider of services to guarantee those services for a "reasonable" period of time, encourage the goodwill of their own community of paying users, and build up a trust relationship with their own customers. Esosoft seem unconcerned with, aside from the contractual nature of their obligations to us their loyal users, the years of work WE have all put in to make our own lists work with their systems can be thrown aside, without any thought whatsoever to the repercussions to us, and to our own users. Who's going to rewrite all our WWW pages by sometime "in the next few weeks"? Who's going to rehash all the automated handling of subscription mechanisms? Who's going to tell all our users, and handle the hundreds of problems we all get in due course when they send in majordomo commands, use the wrong addresses for the list, the owners, and our own personal esosoft email addresses that are distributed in thousands of users personal addressbooks worldwide? Who's going to tell us how to "approve" messages sent to a closed list from a slightly different email address on Topica? Who's going to go into every one of our users mailboxes distributed all over the world and erase the subscription details that they've all saved over the years of list membership and will inevitably use for years to come? I think the mail they sent out is the final, laughable insult. To make out the dropping of what clearly they now see as an unprofitable business as an "advantage" to us is the final slap in the face. I mean, who do they think we are? Do they think we chose a charged-for Majordomo provider because we were *stupid*? Because we didn't *know* you could get free email lists out there, from a 101 other places? Do they think this oh-so-weak PR exercise will fool *anyone*? "Esosoft has partnered with Topica" looks from my reading to be "we've decided we aren't making enough money from you, so we're throwing you all out in the cold with a week or so's notice, and what's more we're passing or selling on your mailing lists to Topica, which we'll make out as a positive advantage to you, our customers". I bet Topica jumped at it. Oh and: who gives Esosoft the right to pass on all my treasured subscribers addresses to a "free" provider who in fact make their money FROM my users with advertising revenue? Here's what I expect from Esosoft with immediate effect: 1. A halt to this ridiculously short timescale of transition that's been sprung on us all so cruelly over the Christmas period. An "opt IN" option for Topica and a whole rethink on how to handle those of use who still want a more sophisticated Majordomo based system. 2. A cast-iron *timed* guarantee as to when the esosoft mailing list addresses will cease to work. For those who "opt out" of the Topica plan, a timescale of 6 months to allow us to transition to a reputable Majordomo supplier. 3. Another "partnership", but this time with someone of equivalent service to the service we got from them before they dumped us, so we can choose. A Majordomo mailing list supplier of roughly equivalent cost and features. 4. A refund of paid-for months on the part of all list-admins who entrusted them with good money. A transition to a "free" service is not a continuation of Esosoft service, obviously. 5. A guarantee as to how long our OWN email addresses, user@majordomo.net or whatever will work for, of at least a year. There's no mention whatsoever of this so far. 6. A large and comprehensive WWW site for our users, available for a year, which will point out the changes in great detail and identify ever minute detail they may face. This should be drawn up for both lists moved to Topica and lists moved to the new supplier in 3. I don't mean the Topica "help" section, I mean specific instructions minutely tailored to Esosoft list users. If they don't do it, we each have to. If not, a compensation plan for the hours of work WE'RE all going to have to put in to make these changes for our tens of thousands of users. Finally thanks to Allen for offering to set up a source for all of us on MLA to continue to exchange information about where on earth we can go for Majordomo services in the light of this staggering course of events. I expect pretty soon the MLA list will be shut down if it hasn't happened already, and I suggest anyone with the slightest interest in coping with this enforced crisis to get in touch with Allen. We desperately need to put our heads together to find a new provider *quickly*, and I know my search lasted weeks last time - if we act together I suspect we'll carry some weight. I await Esosoft's immediate response to points 1-6 above please. Paul -- "At Esosoft, customer satisfaction is our Top Priority! Exceeding the expectations of our customers is what makes us the best." +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+