Sinister: pop and non-pop; Coronation Street; Xmas songs (lon g-ish, no real B&S)

[Hopkins T]

	Duke:
	>A strange, but strangely natural concept :-)

	Pop is strange, and it is strangely natural. That's one of the
things which enables pop to open up possibilities and sensibilities.
Just because Vic Godard was strangely natural, and indeed naturally
strange, did not mean he couldn't reinvent himself at the drop of a
titfer, didn't mean he was tied down to some dull authenticity. The
craphats in the Oasis/OCS campaign for real rock axis never seemed to
realise that the essence of pop is always going to be more of:
	'oh, look at this, it's exciting...', than
	'oh, look at me, I've always been into (insert worthy vintage
band name here)...'

	>A new way to do
	>things.  Which was essentially Pop

	Yeah! And a new way to see and to believe and after that new
way, another, if necessary.

	>others may agree
	>on 'Stairway to Heaven' and Deep Purple.  Yes,
	>even.  And to those people, i argue that those
	>moments are Pop, even though they will prefer to
	>call them Rock (and that is their prerogative), 

	But duke, don't be afraid of getting back to basics, what's
wrong and right.
	MY pop can and will never include Stairway to bleedin' Heaven or
Smoke on the Water. Let those who want to incorpaorate those moments
find their own words for their macho, thoughtless unchallenging guff.
Let them have rock, or whatever, if it makes them feel more manly.
Because the joy of the self-making that pop allows is the ability to
place yourself _against_  as well as (more than?) _for_.

	>So: rock'n'roll the closest thing to heaven?  NO
	>NO NO.  But Pop as Personal Religion?  Um, yeah,
	>sure, why not...

	Fantastic. And I'm a fundamentalist...."We Oppose All Rock and
Roll".

>Pop because Pop is obsessive, and is
>obsessively about the moment of transendence...
>it's always about reaching (back) to That Moment /That Feeling.  

Alright. And (if you'll allow me a bit of theory for a moment) how about
pop as jouissance (dangerous moment of painful pleasure where ones very
self is up for grabs) and rock as plaisir (undangerous pleasure of
having your assumptions and predispositions confirmed)? S.Reynolds tried
to use this set of ideas in justifying his love for the Young
Gods/Swans/whoever but didn't seem to recognise that the emotional
reaction to a noise/melody/lyric can be more potent than the more
physical reaction to the sounds he was supporting.
Enough of such tomfoolery.

Stuart:
>What I meant by populist was people writing (and releasing) songs
purely
>because they know that it will sell...Take That...it worked for the
Spice Girls

But your comparison was with groups like Radiohead. I think there's
little more than a difference in marketing really. Radiohead are pushed
as this 4-real bunch of serious artists because the market they're aimed
at demands that. The Spice Girls/TT/Boyzone/etc audience don't care too
much (it seems to me) and are out for what they enjoy, pure and simple.
Which is great, in its own way.

	Rodney:
>Anti-pop is Celine Dion, Bush, Ocean Colour Scene, Kula Shaker, Elton
John,
>bloody Perfect Day. Pop is All Saints, pop is Aqua, pop is Belle &
Sebastian.Where's the problem in that...? 

No problem whatsoever. Couldn't have put it better.

Matt,
>There was an excellent reggae version of the coronation st theme tune,
but I can't remember who it was by...

Izzy Royal. Not so convinced about the quality myself, but there y'go...

Someone else:
> >Or name your top Christmas tune, seem as though we're coming up to 
> >the season of goodwill...

'Things Fall Apart' by Christina, which is not only my favourite Xmas
record, but also my favourite disc on the mighty Ze imprint. Over a
thumping disco beat Christina relays a sad chain of events which might
even do justice to Belle and Seb's more melancholy moments:
"there wasn't any snow, but there was rain
he licked me like a candy cane 
and then one day he said
'I can't stand in your way, it's wrong'
'Way of what?' I asked, but he was gone.
Things fall apart, but they never leave your heart..."

After that, it has to be 'Archie The Red Nosed Reindeer', which is one
of Tapper Zukie's less brilliant moments, but a goodie all the same.

Still endeavouring to clean up my mail, and wet from trying to drown
myself in the Clyde. there were too many Rangers fans doing the same
thing on Sunday night...

Tim

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