Sinister: PLEASE READ: FAQ
Honey
honey at xxx.net
Tue Mar 24 18:32:36 GMT 1998
I've updated the list of Frequently Asked Questions for the mailing
list quite a bit to stop them being so frequent - consider it a List
Manifesto too. I'm posting it here so that when you are growled at
for not reading it I have an excuse. Minor grrrs will result if you
don't read it as this list is taking quite a bit of time to run.
It's big - sorry - but please take a look, particularly at "Using
The List". Let's keep this list special, ok, and forgive me for
being so damn sensible for a minute. Oh and thanks to everyone who's
suggested stuff for this.
It's on the WWW at http://www.majordomo.net/sinister/faq.html
Honeykisses xxx
P.S. Search engine: Nick's right it only does very simple phrases so it
might be hard to find Elvis - I'd suggest searching for "broccoli" as a
search term - honestly. Try it. And yes one day I'll make the search
engine better :)
--- Belle and Sebastian Sinister Mailing List ---
--- Frequently Asked Questions ---
This is a list of questions for using the list. A list of frequently
asked questions for Belle and Sebastian themselves can be found at
the Fan Club Site at http://www.totalweb.co.uk/bluesoda/faq/faq.htm.
I know this is a long list but please take time to read it before you
use the list.
Note that this has been updated significantly on the 24th March 1998.
Please remember you can see this list at any time by going to the
Sinister WWW page at:
http://www.majordomo.net/sinister
--- Index ---
- Using the list -
1. How do I subscribe/unsubscribe from Sinister?
2. So I just send everything to "sinister at majordomo.net", yeah?
3. I'm getting fed up with all these messages, can I get them all
together sometime instead?
4. Can I tell who is on the list?
5. I can't get off the stupid list - why the hell not?
6. I'm on the list but I've stopped getting any emails - what's
happened??
--OR-- My list messages stopped and I get keep getting silly ones
about a list called "bounces" - what's all this about?
7. I only just joined the list, can I see what's previously been sent?
8. Someone mentioned something on the list and I can't remember when
or what they said - shall I ask again?
9. I need someone's email address from the list and I can't find it
10. When I send a reply to the list the address my mail program decides
to send to if I don't change it is stupid! Why don't replies
automatically go back to the list / the recipient only?
- List content and rules -
11. So why can't anyone out there send any old junk to the list?
12. Brilliant! I can advertise my new band/floor cleaner/hygiene
product to everyone on the list now!
13. OK so it's a music list then?
14. So what can we talk about on the list?
15. He/she's really winding me up, I'm going to slag them off something
rotten...
16. What else do I have to remember?
- Hints -
17. What is "Tigermilk" / what other recordings are there / who is in
the band etc etc?
18. Hey I've found out Belle and Sebastian are releasing a single /
playing a gig and no-one's mentioned it yet, I'm going to tell
everyone...
- About the list -
19. Who provides this list? Who says I can't do what I want on it?
20. What has the list got to do with Jeepster, the record company?
21. Do the band read the list?
22. Why bother with all this?
- Using the list -
1. How do I subscribe/unsubscribe from Sinister?
There are two addresses you need to remember to use the list:
sinister at majordomo.net
- this is the address to send messages to everyone on the list.
Everything sent here goes to everyone - the list software makes a
copy of your message and sends it on to everyone who is subscribed.
You use this address everytime you want to mail information to the
list.
majordomo at majordomo.net
- this is where you send mailing list requests i.e.
subscribe/unsubscribes. Messages sent here don't go to the list but
perform certain commands - they should be sent in the body of your
message (i.e. first line) and not the subject line. There's not a
person on the other end but a program which reads commands you send
in your email and responds to them, so you need to type them exactly
right. To subscribe to the list you need to send the following
command:
subscribe sinister
and equally
unsubscribe sinister
to get off the list.
It's important you understand the distinction between these two
addresses. If you ever get really stuck and you have read the rest
of this page, then just send a personal message to
sinister-owner at ph.ed.ac.uk
This gets through to a person i.e. me and I can sort it out but I'll
pull a face if you haven't tried everything suggested here.
2. So I just send everything to "sinister at majordomo.net", yeah?
No! Read again! Never send unsubscribe requests to the list itself
(i.e. sinister at majordomo.net) but always to majordomo at majordomo.net!!!
This is very important as you'll find people will want to throttle
you if you send such messages to the list - it happens a lot and
drives people mad. I may be able to put a block on these and chuck
them away but I do not have the time to manual subscribe/unsubscribe
people who get it wrong.
3. I'm getting fed up with all these messages, can I get them all
together sometime instead?
Yes, instead of subscribing to "sinister" you need to subscribe to
"sinister-digest". This is a summarised version of the list every
day once a day. Just follow the same rules as above, so just send
the message:
subscribe sinister-digest
to:
majordomo at majordomo.net
Note the hyphen above, many people leave it out and it matters!
Remember if you are changing to the digest to unsubscribe from the
standard list.
4. Can I tell who is on the list?
Yes. The first way is to click on the links on the main WWW page
under "Joining". Here you can see the full email addresses of people
on the main list, the digest, and a breakdown of who on the list is
from which countries.
If you can't get to the WWW you can still get a list by email: just
send the command
who sinister
to
majordomo at majordomo.net
Equally you can get some info on the list be sending:
info sinister
but you'll probably just get the same as you're reading here. Again
it is possible to retrieve files from the list via majordomo commands
such as:
index sinister
and then
get sinister <filename>
This can be done for the digest version of the list too - but please
don't bother if you are reading this from the WWW already! This
service is pretty basic and will only contain some information
included on these WWW pages for people without WWW access. If anyone
falls into this category please let me know as I don't intend to
update this much unless there's a need.
5. I can't get off the stupid list - why the hell not?
Don't mail me until you've read this or I'll get a bit grumpy. There
are several reasons why it doesn't work when you expect it to:
(1). You're not on "sinister" but the digest version which is actually a
separate list called "sinister-digest". You need to send an
"unsubscribe sinister-digest" command.
(2). Your mail program is sending out your email address in a slightly
different format than before (maybe you changed programs). First you
should check your subscription address by finding it in the correct
list, using the "who" command or looking at the list from the top WWW
page as described above. If you see your address still on the list
then try:
unsubscribe sinister email-address
There'll be a slight delay while this kind of request gets approved
but it'll be a lot quicker than waiting for me to sort it out
manually.
(3). You're actually off the list but mail is still dribbling through -
again check the subscriber list from the WWW or using the "who"
command.
If none of this works and you're sure you're still on the list, then
mail me, but send me the error you get when you try and unsubscribe.
I can't do much without this.
6. I'm on the list but I've stopped getting any emails - what's
happened?? --OR-- My list messages stopped and I get keep getting
silly ones about a list called "bounces" - what's all this about?
Often your service provider will have problems with it's email setup
and mail to you from the list will bounce back to me. I get many of
these a day and after mail has bounced once or twice you will be
taken off the Sinister list or digest and put on another list called
"bounces". It's only purpose is to keep trying you until it gets
through, i.e. your email is fixed and you can see the problem.
The next thing to do is read the message from bounces! It will tell
you what to do. Basically you need to take yourself off the
"bounces" list (to stop getting the reminders) and add yourself back
on the "sinister" or "sinister-digest" as if you are a new user. If
you were on the main list then you would send the following to
majordomo at majordomo.net (not sinister at majordomo.net!):
unsubscribe bounces
subscribe sinister
You should get confirmation back that this has worked.
7. I only just joined the list, can I see what's previously been
sent?
Yes there is an archive available on the WWW. Just point your
browser to:
http://www.majordomo.net/sinister/hypermail/current
This is the current week's archive of messages. Follow the links
from that page to see any week's messages on the list.
8. Someone mentioned something on the list and I can't remember
when or what they said - shall I ask again?
Well have a look in the archives first so you don't get told that
it's been answered before. Use the "search" facility on the WWW site
- you can find it at:
http://www.majordomo.net/sinister/cgi-bin/sinister-search.cgi
You can search for any word or series of words by typing them in the
box and clicking on "Search Now!". This will search for the words
you entered in the current weeks postings' subject or author fields -
there are buttons to search all the text of messages and all weeks
but bear in mind it will take a bit longer to search.
9. I need someone's email address from the list and I can't find it
Use the "Search" above to look for their name in the archive.
10. When I send a reply to the list the address my mail program
decides to send to if I don't change it is stupid! Why don't
replies automatically go back to the list / the recipient only?
The setting for this list is that a Reply-to field is not set. This
means that for most mail programs replies will go back to the sender
of the message rather than the list itself. This may or may not be
the right behaviour for you, but is set as a most conservative and
safest choice for the list. This is a fairly religious issue but
here's a quick discussion why I have done it this way.
Please digest users in particular remember that a reply to a message
in the digest will not go to the list. It goes to "owner-sinister"
which is a particular kind of black hole :) I get these sometimes
and I'm afraid the list takes too much of my time to manual send
stuff on. It'll get deleted very rapidly, so you'll just have to
remember I'm afraid.
The main reason is because it is generally seen as bad practice to do
this,although it's quite widespread - see for instance
http://www.unicom.com/FAQ/reply-to-harmful.html
The reason for this isn't petty technical completeness but because it
can cause very real problems - only in the last month my mailbox was
filled with 900 copies of the same error message caused by a badly
constructed mail program at the receiving end by someone on the list
- some of the bigger corporations just don't abide by standard
Internet mailing rules and their programs send errors back to the
Reply-To field, which go back to the list and via the list back to
the offending machine and... you can imagine. For people picking up
their mail via dial-up I can only imagine the nightmares this would
cause.
- List content and rules -
11. So why can't anyone out there send any old junk to the list?
Because you can only send to the list if you are a member
(hopefully). <- Not now true unfortunately: it was too much to hope
that all mail programs would sensibly send the same email address as
the subscription address so it didn't work. This safety net has now
been disabled, but please let me know if you think we are being
troubled by outside submissions or junk email. I can however stop
any specific person ever sending to the list again if they really
abuse it.
12. Brilliant! I can advertise my new band/floor cleaner/hygiene
product to everyone on the list now!
Please please please don't abuse the list in this way. Anyone who
consistently and unashamedly sends adverts to the list will be
banned with no court of appeal.
13. OK so it's a music list then?
Well - sort of - but remember it's a list for People who listen to
Belle and Sebastian and it's very existence is centred around that
idea. There are plenty of much more general music lists (e.g.
"indiepop") which will be better suited to someone who wants to talk
for hours about a particular genre. These other lists have many more
resources behind them and are there for just that. Of course we're
all going to talk about music/books/wallpaper we like but there's a
balance to be struck. It's actually quite a hard balance to find so
the best thing to do is watch the list for a while and see what
people like.
14. So what can we talk about on the list?
Anything vaguely connected with the band or with life as a fan of
Belle and Sebastian, is OK. The list is the place where you'll hear
any real news about Belle and Sebastian first, but it is also a place
where people will tell stories about what's happened to them, if they
think they're funny or relevant. Try and remember this: it's a list
for Belle and Sebastian but more importantly about the lives of
People Who Like Belle And Sebastian. If you want a low-volume
news-only list for the band then don't join. You will get a lot of
mail that isn't about latest releases, gigs, appearances etc., but
instead about ourselves.
The list goes right when it's lively, funny, interesting, touching,
and sometimes even useful. The list goes wrong when people post
irrelevancies, not-so-funny "clever" quips, or long discussions take
place which would be more suited to another list (like discussions of
the relative merits of a band unrelated to B&S).
I may step in if we get a long long conversation about something
interesting to only a tiny minority of the list - some people pay
handsomely for their email and would not be pleased to receive a
thousand messages about an obscure band from Wigan who once sounded a
bit like the intro to one of Belle and Sebastian's songs. If you do
receive a mail from me which asks you to stop posting to the list on
a particular subject, or in a particular way, please don't be
offended - I am just trying to keep this list running ok - but please
do something about it. I have seen too many lists die as a result of
losing sight of what they are for and why people liked them in the
first place, and don't want the same to happen here, if it can be
avoided.
Please try and be sensitive to the majority of listeners (over 500 at
the time of writing) and do not continue long threads on an unrelated
subject - if you wish to divert widely from the issues related
specifically to the band, then go to a more general list or pop along
to www.liszt.com and join another list as well! Pet theories about
whether Elvis is a cat or indeed a brussel sprout are however
tolerated for a long time because they amuse your list
administrator.
15. He/she's really winding me up, I'm going to slag them off
something rotten...
DO NOT FLAME PEOPLE OR BE ABUSIVE! I take this very seriously and
will act accordingly - too many mailing lists have been ruined by
arrogance or a quick temper by people who consider themselves "real
fans" - a pathetic term. This mailing list is setup for everyone,
especially new enthusiastic listeners who do not need to be abused
and belittled. Please be helpful and if you can't think of anything
nice to say go and do a jigsaw. Anyone who is consistently a real
pain will be permanently removed. I am a naive kitten and I don't
like fights on my list and I'll stop them - there are plenty of angry
lists to go to if you want.
If anyone feels they are being unfairly mistreated or have any other
problems with the list please mail me rather than the list. I will
sort out any such problems offline.
This of course doesn't mean you can't express strong feelings
strongly - in fact it's mandatory. But don't attack people, attack
things.
16. What else do I have to remember?
Please read these and remember. If someone consistently ignores
these you might get a bit of a growl and in extreme cases I'll stop
people posting if the happiness of the majority on the list demands
it.
* Don't send warnings about viruses to the list! You might be being
friendly but 99.9% of these "virus warnings" are hoaxes - the only
"virus" is the fact that you are passing it on, and everyone who knows
will groan. If you see one of these and aren't sure then mail me and
I will check for you.
* Don't send lots of replies to separate messages on the list one after
another. This doesn't seem to go down well. Proper behaviour is to
hold back, read a few messages and bundle up your replies to them all
in one big message for the day.
* If you are replying to someone, take the time to edit the bits you are
quoting from their message carefully and just quote a few lines. If
you can't be bothered editing the message you are replying to, don't
bother sending - laziness on your own part equates to over 500 people
having to page through stuff they've read before. If you are adding
fewer lines than you are quoting it's probably not worth sending
either.
* Don't send number games/quizzes/jokes to the list if you can help it
please. Put a bit of yourself into your posts.
* If you really need some information on something that other people may
not want to know, please make sure you remember to tell people not to
mail back to the list, but to you personally. If you think others
might be interested, say you will post a summary of the mails you
received. And, erm, do it.
* Don't use the list for private mail to 5 people you know. Please help
my server stay unclogged so this list can survive.
* People will talk about a book or film or song or sandwich filling they
love or hate. That's fine - but please don't just say "it's great" or
"it's crap". Say why. Just because a lot of people tell me they get
fed up with these.
* Please don't send messages with attachments to the list. This may not
be junk to you but there's still lots of people out there who don't
use mail programs that know how to deal with anything but standard
text. And please remember some of us use Unix etc. as a principle
platform and so attachments in proprietary formats (like Microsoft
Word) will just be plain unreadable. If anyone wants to share material
that isn't in standard text format, or that's of significant size,
that's fine - just send it to me and I will post it up on the WWW
site. That way people get to choose to download it...
* Don't fling any old message to the list or treat it like email to a
few friends - it just doesn't translate on a massive scale and people
will get irritated. Think before you send. The drill is: compose
your message - hover your hand over the send button for 10 seconds -
think: "would Cliff Richard send this?" - send.
- Hints -
17. What is "Tigermilk" / what other recordings are there / who is
in the band etc etc?
This list of answers doesn't cover any of that - it's just guidelines
for using the list itself. You can imagine that question like these
get asked and answered all the time. There's a set of answers to
questions like these on the Fan Club site at:
http://www.totalweb.co.uk/bluesoda/faq/faq.htm
Please make sure you read these if you're new before posting your
question.
18. Hey I've found out Belle and Sebastian are releasing a single
/ playing a gig and no-one's mentioned it yet, I'm going to tell
everyone...
Well you may be right, but it's pretty likely you're not. There
seems to be masses of people/shops out there who "know" about release
dates/gigs before the band or record company do. To save everyone
going out and booking plane tickets, I'd suggest you mail Katrina
first at jeepster.uk at virgin.net to check before you post to the
list.
- About the list -
19. Who provides this list? Who says I can't do what I want on it?
The resources to run this list are provided by my employer and it is
not a guaranteed public service - I will do whatever is necessary to
ensure its continued existence. If you want a completely
unrestrained list where anyone can talk for weeks about anything, or
a more constrained list that is moderated or band news only, then I'm
afraid you'll have to go elsewhere.
Hopefully (sorry) Belle and Sebastian won't become quite as popular
as Take That so I will be able to keep it going on borrowed resources
- but if it impacted too much I might have to withdraw it one day.
To ensure it continues therefore it isn't a public resource in quite
the same way a newsgroup is. So please be nice.
20. What has the list got to do with Jeepster, the record company?
Nothing formally at all - although Jeepster are a friendly bunch and
we'd all be lost without Katrina (from Jeepster)'s newsworthy quips
and endless help. But the list isn't here to promote Jeepster, or
indeed the band really, and we don't have to say only nice things
about either of them.
Nor is the list directly affiliated to David Kitchen's fan club,
although he was fundamental in helping to set the list up and running
it. I'm making these points just to say that it's a separate,
strictly non-commercial meeting place - if you want fan club or
record company comment then go straight to Katrina or David.
21. Do the band read the list?
The answer is pretty much: yes, sporadically. The band have an
office in Glasgow and a few members get Internet access elsewhere and
they keep up with it on and off when it's interesting. Please don't
let that inhibit anyone from saying anything - remember it's your
list, not anyone elses. And don't expect an answer from the band to
a query on the list - it's pretty unlikely. Mail them direct from
the link to the band WWW pages on the Sinister top page.
22. Why bother with all this?
Lists of frequently asked questions like this are usually formal and
stuffy affairs so a personal note: I am a grumpy thirty-something who
still refuses to listen to Eric Clapton or moan how good music was
when he was 16 - it's hard though when we're surrounded by so much
mediocrity, but we shouldn't kid ourselves it was any different 15
years ago. But when I heard Belle and Sebastian I jumped for joy at
a band with genuine musical sense, charm, toughness and POPness. So
this is still all about music.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honey 24th March 1998
mailto:honey at Majordomo.net
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. Listen, this is pish, I think I'll leave
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