Sinister: Hobbes vs. Locke (a reply)

[Andras Zalan Szolnoki]

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>From: Neil Dewhurst <NeilD at xxx.uk>
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...although I think Locke (or it may be Hobbes) would disagree.  
According to Locke, man's natural state is war and conflict.  His 
socio-political model is roughly, give or take a few interpretations and 
a bit of memory loss, as follows.

		This expands into a political model, where people in a
society appreciate that they need rules to stop this kind of barbarity, 
so they club together and elect in some way an individual to rule them. 
Given the potentially evil nature of their leader they give him / her 
limited powers within which they can rule, so if their leader oversteps 
they get to oust them.  
- this is Locke , because the people have made a contract with the 
supreme. 

I think in the Hobbes model everyone is so loving and kind and
naive that they just elect someone and decide that they're so 
trustworthy they give them unlimited power, probably because they 
weren't around when Lord Acton told the world that "power tends to 
corrupt.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
- Hobby-boy is a bit confusing when it comes to the power of the supreme 
, because he wants the supreme to be an uber-man untouched by the laws 
he makes or by his subjects , but he doesn´t say explicitly
that the surpreme can do whatever he wants to ( one can protect oneself 
from injustice etc.etc. ) , nor that one elected , he can rule as long 
as it suits him , because he says that people can rebel , if society has 
reached the state of anarchy b`cuz the supreme was the power or person 
to prevent that from happening , so there is no difference in having a 
supreme , but he also says that the contract is a contract between the 
people (they surrender some of their rights to gain security ) and not 
between the people and the supreme as locky .

whooooo.......

any comments??????

Ciao !!!!!!
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