Sinister: The Smiths, God bless them

[McQuain, Chris]

I sent this message once before but never received it, so I don't think it
went through. Forgive me if anybody gets this twice.

*****************************************************

While I think it is unfair to both bands to compare Belle & Sebastian to the
Smiths, I must reply to the message below. THIS WILL NOT STAND! Morrissey
said it himself: "Don't forget the songs that made you cry/And the songs
that saved your life". It's easy to dismiss Morrissey as 'narcissistic'
without acknowledging that any time a performer gets on a stage without a
paper bag on his/her head, in one way or another they're asking that the
spotlight be put on them. This is what P!O!P! is, if you're not going to
accept that all pop is a cult of personality (besides faceless mechanical
techno drivel) then I don't understand why you would take part in the very
cult of personality that the Sinister list is. It's a double standard that
completely undermines Joseph's argument. The Smiths got their start on an
indie label, were staunchly anti-Thatcher, and are held up today by most as
a shining example of an '80s band who did NOT personify their time. Billy
Bragg, Mr. Red Wedge himself, was on TV a month ago singing the praises of
the Smiths' politically conscious songs, and wishing they were still making
new ones. 

I think that Joseph displays an attitude that is, ironically, much more
1980s than anything you could ever pin on the Smiths. This attitude seems to
say that now that the novelty is gone, now that you're no longer a
16-year-old whose very existence is being validated by The Smiths, you can
just toss them aside, they're of no use any more, forget about them. In
reality, The Smiths were a perfect pop band, I would personally say the best
ever, with beautiful music, sadness AND humor, and all of it was so full of
hope for kindness and love in the world; any cynicism or spite in the music
comes directly from the disappointment of that hope. As I've grown older,
I've found nothing but more layers and depth to The Smiths' music.
Pigeon-holing it as narcissistic and sad is just lazy, it's jumping on a
bandwagon and not thinking for yourself, because any real listen to the
Smiths music reveals a range that encompasses pure misery, pure joy, and
anything in between. I remember a couple years ago when Luke Haines of the
Auteurs/Black Box Recorder dismissed Morrissey, saying 'I don't really care
about this man any more'. Now, I LOVE Luke Haines, think he's a genius
(everybody go buy the new Auteurs single "The Rubettes" right now!), but
when he said that he was revealing an embarrassing anxiety of influence. I
refuse to believe that the Auteurs could be what they are without The Smiths
being there first, and if The Smiths weren't spinning 'round on Stuart M's
turntable, we may have had Belle & Sebastian, but I bet they'd sound a hell
of a lot different without that influence. 

We all know Belle & Sebastian still love The Smiths, even covered 'Reel
Around the Fountain', and I would assume most of us on the list wouldn't be
so quick to discard them as Joseph is. I fully credit Morrissey for any
interest I've ever had in pop music- he was one of the few public
personalities who ever seemed really passionate about it, regardless of his
sometimes narrow taste. He made it okay to find comfort in your record
collection, when people have let you down. This may seem like narcissism or
selfishness to some, but in so many ways it really did save my life. 

I hope I'm not the only one who jumps to the defense of this band. Though I
certainly think Joseph has a right to his opinion, I think his arguments are
completely baseless, to the point of being merely antagonistic. It worked. 

-Chris  



-----Original Message----- 
From: P68d6ern at xxx.com 
To: sinister at Majordomo.net 
Sent: 6/28/99 1:56 PM 
Subject: Sinister: Proof that I have too much free time 

Hello All, 

Just this morning I was thinking about the comments people have made 
comparing the Smiths to Belle and Sebastian; I came to the conclusion 
that 
there is no comparison what so ever. I recently re-listened to some 
Smiths 
albums and I realized that they no-longer hold any importance for me at 
all 
(except as nostalgia), and the reason for this is the complete 
self-absorption of Morrissery's lyrics. As I 16 year old I was 
fascinated by 
songs such as HAND IN GLOVE, but now all I can say is, "who cares." Not 
to 
say that the song is bad (I do think that it is a good song), but the 
sentiment, the emphasis on the "me" did not appeal to me at all. Thus 
the 
difference with Belle and Sebastian (also the difference between 16 year 
old 
me and 30 year old me). 

Both the Smiths and B&S have lyrics that are "sad" but the lyrics of B&S 

songs seem to find comfort in this sadness; a "we all have bad times, 
but we 
will get over it" tone. And the characters in B&S songs are more 
sympathetic: 
the characters of Smiths songs, to me, seem to invite nothing but pity. 

Maybe this difference is due to the difference in the (look out, 
pretentious 
word alert) zeitgeist of the 80's and 90's. The 1980s was a time of 
every man 
and woman for his/herself; all was about making money and having more 
toys 
than the next person. The Smiths were seen as a reaction against this, 
but I 
feel that their self-absorption fits right in with this attitude (I know 

Morrissery was an advocate for animal rights, but this does not take 
away 
from the egotism of his music--I am talking about music only). B&S have 
a 
wider world view, a very 90's world view, where almost anyone is able to 

place themselves in the situations of B&S songs (emotional if not actual 

experience). Listening to a Smiths song one has the impression that 
every 
lyric is about Morrissery and his obsessions; listening to B&S one has 
the 
impression that they have a view that goes further than their nose. 
Another 
way for me to put this is to use an example of what some critic had said 

about the Beatles: the Beatles music and lyrics was seen as comforting, 
aurally wrapping their collective arms around the listener. I think that 
the 
music of B&S is similar because even though the songs may be sad, so 
many 
people (from what I have gathered from postings) listen to B&S and leave 

feeling better. 

One final point--the fans. Fans of the Smiths took on not only 
Morrissery's 
"attitude" but also his look. I remember hordes of teenagers dressing 
like 
Morrissery: the hair, the glasses, even the hearing aid. There was a 
cult of 
personality around Morrissery that does not exist with B&S, and this 
lack of 
a cult of personality around B&S is not only another difference from the 

Smiths, but is also a very good thing. 

Sorry this was so long, but I did try to condense my thoughts. I hope my 

point comes through. 

Regards, 
Joseph 
PS I noticed that my spell check says to replace "Morrissery" with 
"morosely"--just a concidence perhaps? 

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