Sinister: Moral uncertainty?
Jeff Burke
shiplore at xxx.com
Thu Mar 20 21:04:15 GMT 2003
Sorry for another war post if you get aggravated please stop here....
I'm always envious of everyone who protest or debate and has such a strong
opinion about this whole Iraq mess. because I've been so wavering it's very
disheartening.
People say killing and violence are bad and they are. but what would you do
if you saw a little kid being kicked by some roughs. You'd try to stop it.
even if you had to hurt the roughs.
Now i'm not saying that that analogy is appropiate for this topic but the
idea behind it is. The idea that sometimes other people force you to
violence.
I wasn't thrilled about this from the begining because I don't really
believe in the current administration, but oddly enough I was comforted by
Tony Blair supporting it.. He's labour and he's always been accused of
waffling (much like clinton was unjustly accused of) but he's really showing
the courage of his convictions despite the serious risk if not the death of
his political career.
The Opposition from other governments didn't bother me either. I could
explain away the french very easily as they'd be losing access to alot of
very cheap oil.
This war in iraq could cause problems for the US for years and years (say if
the "new" country elects a fundamentalist leader) or it could actually
stablize the region a little (if they elect a moderate democratic leader).
either way afterward the iraqi oil should go to the iraqi people
I don't think i'd lose any sleep if Saddam Hussein was arrestted or killed.
He's more than shown his disregard for the human race. so at it's heart the
goal of removing his government isn't one I can opposed harshly enough to
protest against.
Maybe i'm overly idealistic but i believe the US and UK armed forces aren't
out to kill civillians.
And please don't simplifiy arguements by chanting no blood for oil. This
isn't an empire expanding exercise to gain more oil. there's plenty of oil
in alaska and texas that the US hasn't even touched yet.. (thou' bush wants
to drill in alaska bad bad)
As much as I dislike Bush I do think he sees a wealthy (and that's where the
oil comes in) Saddam Hussein as a threat, it might be wrong, Saddam Hussein
might only be a threat to his own people, or his neighbors (If it came down
to waiting for Iraq to invade a neighbor again I'd surely vote to wait...but
then again I don't live in a neighboring country) but he's shown a psychotic
side to him that wouldn't make it a stretch for him to sell very bad weapons
who would use him, even if he wouldn't use them himself.
There's book i read called "special providence" by Walter Russell Mead..
it's an interesting take on US foreign Policy and it breaks it up in four
ways
Jeffersonian - Leave the world alone, let's all farm and produce what we
need without interphering or interacting with the rest of the world.
very Isolationist..
My comments --this aspect is really deeply embedded in the psyche of
americans, but it hasn't been used in practice since before World War I
Jacksonian - The world is a bad place, people are out to get us, we must
strike preemptively at threats to our way of life.
MC -- this is what's going on now, September 11 really shocked alot of
politicians mainly already conservative ones but Blair is an example of it's
effect on liberal ones as well. This is the motivation in my opinion for the
current Iraq war.
Hamiltonian -- We need to encourage global trade and commerce and need to
protect our interests abroad if they are threatened but main we should keep
to ourselves.
MC -- this is mainly what policy the US follows historically. Clinton was
this with a bit of the next...
Wilsonian -- We live by the best system in the world, we need to spread free
market democracy everywhere we can, encourage it to grown and challenge it's
opponents..
MC-- by far the most idealistic, helping the underdog ETC...
I'm not sure why i'm rambling on like this... I know it doesn't make sense..
I've always been someone to try to consider all the other view points. and
in this case I can't intrinsicly say which is right and which is wrong. .I
guess in this world there's too much gray.
thanks for reading if you...did.
I'd love to hear from you..
sorry for clogging bandwidth.
peace
jeff.
>From: sinkingpie <sinkingpie at xxx.com>
>Reply-To: sinkingpie <sinkingpie at yahoo.com>
>To: sinister at missprint.org
>Subject: Sinister: How many people are feeling sinister now?
>Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2003 19:39:50 +0000 (GMT)
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>
>"How many times must the cannonballs fly, before
>they're forever banned"
>
>I feel an apology is in order to everyone, because
>this is another post that may slightly more than touch
>on the subject of war.
>
>My views on this much discussed subject are simple. It
>seems to me that intentionally taking away the life of
>another human being is fundamentally wrong (certainly
>if they're unwilling, we can save euphanasia debates
>for a rainy day). Forget about hypocritical
>politicians, forget about oil, the simple fact is that
>people will die. By this, I mean all of the people
>that will die. Including those doing the killing in
>the first place.
>
>A lot of people took part in both protests, and
>"protests" today where I live. During breaktime at
>school a number of people from other schools showed
>up, presumably in an attempt to increase their numbers
>(I suspect this may have been a "protest" rather than
>a protest). This didn't please the staff at my school
>much, neither did the ensuing attempt by a fairly
>small number of people deciding not to attend lessons.
>I do feel that these gestures were more to get out of
>lessons than due to an actual opposition to war,
>although that is of course a generalisation, and I'm
>sure some of the people were very genuine.
>
>Three fire engines showed up shortly after this, after
>someone decided that setting the fire alarm off would
>be an excellent idea for a protest. I wasn't entirely
>convinced, and I have to think that a lesson on
>gas-liquid chromatography may have been more useful...
>
>Reading through what I've just written, I fear I may
>not actually have said much, so I apologise for that.
>But I do think its important for everyone to let
>people know how they feel. Just hopefully in a more
>appropriate way than setting fire alarms off (rumours
>also suggested that protestors set fire to BHS,
>although I think that may be from rather unreliable
>sources, and quite what anit-war protestors have
>against BHS I don't know. any ideas anyone?).
>
>Finally, on an entirely unrelated note, Ballboy are
>playing on John Peel tonight, and I do suggest that
>listening may be enjoyable (this isn't as unrelated to
>B&S as it may first appear, allow me to explain.
>Ballboy are fairly heavily influenced by hefner, and
>an early hefner single (or EP?) had someone from B&S
>(can't quite remember who) playing keyboards on the
>B-side. a tenuous link I agree).
>
>Thanks for reading this, its a nice feeling that I may
>have shared my views with some other people (even if
>no-one reads this, I'll think they have). Perhaps our
>representatives in london will have a sudden change of
>heart. We live in hope.
>
>The answer is blowing in the wind.
>
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+-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+
+-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+
+-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+
+-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+
+-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+
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