>(b) I used the phrase homogenising cultural muscle to mean the power
>which the culture industries (and in this case music) seem to exercise
>to squeeze the best ideas out of the most interesting music and replace
>them with hackneyed, lowest-common-denominator ideas of what will
>_sell_,(meaning what has sold already). Not an absolute rule, but a
>general one.
Thank you, that is clearer. My difficulty was in determining whether you
meant a culturally-homogenising muscle, or a muscle which, concomitant with
(in spite of?) its homogenising powers, was 'cultured'; whether you meant
the brain, or whether indeed the phrase was leaning towards being a specious
form of phrasal verb.
>>ii) Isn't this being-let-down-by-bands-and-populism thing (something
>that
>miraculously ceases to bother you when you give up reading the music
>press,
>by the by),
>
>Thanks dad. I did stop reading the music press for a period of about
>five years, not that you were to know that, of course) and it didn't
>prevent my mistrust of the music business. Neither did it diminish my
>interest in the business's machinations.
>
>> if it has happened with what seem to be some of the bands you
>most like, as central a part of your enjoyment of pop as any other?
>
>No, not as central as any other. Interested as I am in what pop means
>and how it works, the central part of my enjoyment remains the things
>the noise does to me. Long may it remain so. Otherwise, I might as well
>be thinking about milk cartons...
A fair piece of pedantry provoked by my poor phrasing. No, of course it's
not as central as any other, but, so qualified, I still wonder whether or
not what I'm suggesting has any truth - noise on most other mailing list
contains the same anguish about the impending (or otherwise) popularity of
the subject, despite the perceived uniqueness and superiority of each list's
deity.
On another note, I'd appreciate it if you took the foot off the pedal a
little. The Internet is too regrettably reminiscent of a Wild West saloon -
all calm and honky tonk, two seconds later everybody leaping into a brawl.
Regards,
John.
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Tim Hopkins wrote:
>I'm saying this now bedcause I love them, I'm saying it now because I
don't want to be sad or angry in two years having been let down again,
like I was (we were, eh duke?) with Hurrah! or the Smiths or so many
others years ago.
It's easy to blame the demise on these bands (both of whom I was a big fan of - and still love a lot of their stuff) on their association with THE MAN, but surely it's not inconceivable that they just ran out of ideas, and would have gone down the pan anyway, regardless of whether they "sucked the corporate tit" (I think that's one of Matt Kaplan's?) or not. Somebody mentioned the Wedding Present in this regard.
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Says in today's NME that Belle and Sebastian were invited onto TOTP last
week... that's all I know because I've not read the "interview" yet, but
according to Tommy Udo (I just heard him on XFM, he's not a personal friend
or anything) it's a hilarious read...
Pauly
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The chords for She's Losing It give the lyrics for the second part of
the chorus as
"When the first cup of coffee clears the washing up..."
but please reassure me, someone, that it actually goes
"When the first cup of coffe tastes like washing up..."
because that's what I think I hear and it's a great line!
Dazza
************
You are wearing vinyl, and being morally persuaded
he is wearing vinyl, she is wearing it,
and their silhouette creates more of the same copious thing
not far away, so we remember this corridor forever
************
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> and just keep the records in the shops. went looking for
> another copy of '3, 6, 9...' on saturday. easy to find i
> thought - chart band and all that. except woolworth's use a
> different chart from everyone else. whsmiths only seemed to
> stock the top 20 and virgin just had a hole where number 32
> should've been. ok, it serves me right for living in such an
> armpit of a place but...
My local Our Price never had any copies of 3,6,9, to begin with. And
they didn't get any when it went into the top 40 either, as they
usually do. Not that I'd have bought it there anyway, given the
choice, but still, it may be part of the reason why they didn't get a
higher chart place, mightn't it?
Dazza
************
You are wearing vinyl, and being morally persuaded
he is wearing vinyl, she is wearing it,
and their silhouette creates more of the same copious thing
not far away, so we remember this corridor forever
************
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evening all, this is my first message to this list, so forgive any
screw-ups. I'd just like to add my opinions to the whole issue of bands
letting you down or screwing up or whatever. I too have very high hopes
for BandS but there is a danger of forgetting that we are the fans and they
are the band - let's face it, if they decide they wanna "sell out" that's
really up to them. And if they decide they want to do a rock opera about
Adolf Hitler (for example) then that's up to them too.
Being a fan is great fun but also depressing - I remember being let down by
the House of Love (selling out, re-releasing "Shine On"), The Auteurs
(turning crap very quickly), and, yes, even The Smiths (signing to a major
label - amazing how upsetting that seemed at the time...)
But then think about someone like The Wedding Present, who followed their
own rules, rather admirably, but still ended up, well, where, exactly? And
think about the abominable nightmare that is Chumbawamba - big hit single
for their nice new major label, but then let's face it, straight in at
number thirty two for the next one, dropped by the label pretty damn
sharpish, I would say...
Anyway, I'm all in favour of worshipping belle and sebastian, cos I think
they're fucking ace, but a little perspective comes in handy too - don't
expect them to be perfect and don't be too disappointed when other people
like them because of their fluke hit single or whatever else may happen in
the future. Watching the progress of a band like this is very interesting,
with all the potential pitfalls that lie in their way - how disappointed
will we be when there's a TWO CD single, instead of an EP, or they turn up
on some godawful kids tv show, or they make lots of money and move to Spain
or something...?
I hope that BandS are having fun right now, and earning enough to keep them
off the streets, and I hope they like having the kind of fans they've got.
Finally, apologies if I've rambled or sounded a tad patronising at times,
but I'm making this up as I go along.
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re:
>I'm sure they understand. Sign after sign, hint after hint show that
>they understand how important it could be to find a position of strength
>without the homogenising cultural muscle of the music industry. (A
>homogenising cultural muscle whose products I also enjoy, but would
>cherish an alternative to).
>I'm saying this now bedcause I love them, I'm saying it now because I
>don't want to be sad or angry in two years having been let down again,
>like I was (we were, eh duke?) with Hurrah! or the Smiths or so many
>others years ago.
2 Questions:
i) What is a homogenised cultural muscle? Is there a less pretentious term
for this part of the anatomy?
ii) Isn't this being-let-down-by-bands-and-populism thing (something that
miraculously ceases to bother you when you give up reading the music press,
by the by), if it has happened with what seem to be some of the bands you
most like, as central a part of your enjoyment of pop as any other?
rgds
john.
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Update your records!
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Sorry this is now a little out of date, (and I wish I'd seen it before
the weekend, duke, or we could have talked this one through over a
couple of scoops) but I feel I need to clarify something regarding the
popness/non-popness dimension of the Tigermilk reissue.
So here goes:
----------
From: duke of harringay
To: 'sinister(a)majordomo.net'
Subject: Re: Sinister: Tigermilk Reissues
Date: 24 October 1997 17:34
>i like the mythical quality of tigermilk remaining
>unavailable (and NO i don't have a copy on vinyl
>either...) , because actually i disagree with tim
>about collectablity not being part of Pop. I
>think it is...
Hmmm. Now I would have thought that you of all people, sir duke, would
have subscrbed to the more throwaway angle: that pop is about being
cheap and great and (what was it?) throwaway pop tunes which you just
want to keep forever.
Of course I understand the joy of seeking out that great lost tune but I
think that's a different and discrete impulse from the pure pop joy
which I feel when I hear Belle and Sebastian.
And I, of course, also understand the urge to _own_ your pop music, to
build a world-view and a self around it, but I still don't think that
justifies artificailly creating this kind of exclusivity in what I
believe should be a fundamentally democratic medium.
> However... i also think that Tigermilk
>is a great record and deserves to be heard. Given
>that there's a lot of growing interest in the
>band, i think it should be given a 'real' airing
>to the public
Me too. Oh, me too.
>, and i suspect that despite all the
>comments from the band, it WILL come out, but only
>when they think it's in their best interests for
>it to happen. It's a juggling act.... keep it
>back long enough to keep people talking and
>hoping, then unleashing it when they feel at a
>peak of publicity, or whatever. I don;t think it
>will see the light of day until they get a
'>charting' LP and mass interest in the press.
>Then i can see full page ads pushing it as the
>'great lost debut by belle & sebastian' or
>somesuch. And that's fair enough, because that's
>Pop too.
Well, yes, kind of. Except that one of the (many) things which I cherish
about this band is that they always seemed to want to (and, for once,
seemed to be in the position to) tackle this music industry thing on
their own terms. Now all of a sudden I'm expected to believe that it's
OK to play so strictly by the rules. I'd love to see a little more in
the way of imagina(c)tion going in to how it's to be presented, rather
than falling so quickly into line with the way of thinking which ends up
talking about 'great lost albums'. Which, surely, is classic canonical
rock-speak. I'd like to think that this band, of all bands, find such
language as stomach-turning as I do.
And the point of all of this I will explain in a separate mail, because
this one's long enough already.
Lubricate yours
TimH
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[stuart murdoch]
Me and Neil and my friend Steve from Seattle went looking
for the Largest Cathedral in America. Tom said it was
anyway, but I thought he was getting mixed up, or I expected
cathedrals to be really small in America. Because didn't all
big cathedrals get built about the time of the Vikings? So
we went up on the tube to 116th Street, and got lost a bit,
and then we found it. It was the largest building I'd ever
seen.
The funny thing was that we were originally meant to play
in this place. U2 would have trouble pulling it off in
there. We could've played in the f***ing vestry! There was a
43 second reverb up the nave.
The sound would have been like condensed soup.
Nice place, though. I wandered in and out of the nine or
so smaller chapels behind the alter. Chapels to Saint
Columbus, Saint James, Saint some others. I had an
ecclesiastical dump in the toilets which were through the
cathedral shop. There was confessional graffiti in the bogs.
I lost track of time a bit, and when i got out Neil and
Steve had been waiting for some time. Neil told me that
Steve didn't hang around in the cathedral. Although he liked
it, he felt a bit strange being a fag in a holy place.
We walked Steve to his hostel and then to his bus. At the
stop Neil bought a vanilla sports shake. He said it was 'the
very dorts' and we agreed. Me and Steve went to buy the same
shake. We stood on the corner all drinking from the
distinctive design of can, looking like three tubes.
Everyone felt sick after for ages.
We say Steve on to the bus, and he was sad because he had
a good time, and we wouldn't see him again for ages. Also,
he doesn't have a proper boyfriend in Seattle, so
consequently he is always giving to people but never really
taking.
Melody Maker 18th October 1997
um, still no sign of part 5. oh um...
andy
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