I'm not going to go on and on about this, but I just thought I'd say a few things that might make this a bit clearer: Yes, SoS does exist. I think it's a crap name and gives the wrong impression (ie. that Sinister is "theirs" to be saved from unspecified "others"). It's not like that. In the short time I was on it, it emphatically did NOT sit there 'monitoring' what gets posted to Sinister. It just got formed because Honey needed to sound ideas off about what to do about the list when it went through a bad patch late last year (remember all that US vs UK animosity that got whipped up by some people, for example?). It wasn't an elected list no - just a bunch of people who had made helpful suggestions before or that he had got to know and trust somehow. I wasn't on it. And I was a bit shocked when I found out about it earlier this year. I said to Honey how bad the whole thing looked and he was dead embarrased and tried to explain why it had got formed. I belatedly joined. The reason it was kept secret is that it does sound bad - like there's an A-list of people. But I erally think it's not like that. When you think about it *anyone's* got the right to talk to *whoever* they want, especially about things that matter to them so much. The other options were just to stick with talking to people on an individual basis (which is not that efficient as a way of bouncing around ideas) or to clog up the Sinister list with talk about it (which is a surefire way of making the list dull as ditchwater). OR have an elected body, which is what Seb and others have suggested. Why not have an elected body? a) I think it's impractical and makes the whole thing look like some kind of bloody UN agency - it's a POP MUSIC LIST for heaven's sake. I think we'd become a laughing stock. I can just imagine telling my friends that I'm canvassing votes for my Belle and Sebastian 'Vote Dastoor and I'll send you your bundles of digests sprinkled in glitter' ticket. I think it would put load of people off joining at all - the idea that we're all in some kind of competition to be the most popular listees so that we get elected. b)More importantly, it's Honey's list and he runs it how he thinks best. There was never, as FunkySeb implies 'democracy' on the list. And the list was NEVER run by SoS. As it happened, someone suggested (the last time SoS was active) posting messages to it expressing their final views on whether we should accept Jeepster's offer to run the list under the belleandsebastian.co.uk domain. They asked everyone to flag their messages in the subject heading to make it clear what they 'voted' for. Which did make it look like a council. But this *wasn't* Honey's idea, and he made it clear in his response that he was not acting as a result of the way the votes fell but because he had come to his own decision, for which he took all responsibility. The only real thing to come out of the discussion on SoS was to start up the nursery period. Which I think has worked really well, giving people a chance to get the feel of the place and look around at the archives and website before launching in. In my view, there have been some lovely, interesting posts from new people lately. I hope that doesn't sound patronising. SoS, to my knowledge, went pretty quiet (like only about a couple of posts a month) after that and only really got revived to talk about what to do about Jeepster setting up their own list and so on.

Well, because many of the people who used to contribute so much to the real list have joined SOS, and stopped posting to the real list. (I can think of only a couple of exceptions to this rule.) And I can only think that they spend so much time seeing if our posts are up to scratch that they don't have the time to contribute to the list themselves...

All I can say about this is that if it's is the case (which I don't think it is) then it's certainly not because they are spending their time on SoS instead. They're probably just shagging.

I won't stay on a list where a handful of unelected people (fuck it, let's call it what it is...a clique) decide who and what meets their standards, and ridicule and bully those whom they dislike. I've read things from the SOS list, and I've read bulling letters sent by its members, and I hate what I see.

I'm horrified but if anyone has received bullying messages from *anyone* , SoS or non SoS, then I completely deplore it. If these bullies were SoS people that I have met and liked then I'm really cross at myself for having misjudged them. But the question is: 'What would you do about it?'. No one, not even Honey with all his magic powers, can stop people being horrible to people in private emails. All he can do is keep it off the list. Which he does a bloody effective job of - too effective in some people's eyes to judge from last week's nonsense. Personally, I'm glad about SoS getting wound up. I understood why Paul needed it but I had a horrid feeling that it was going to end in tears. Shame FunkySeb felt the need to drag it all through the mud, but hopefully people won't all rush off like Andrew without hearing the other side of the story first. I'm forwarding this to him in the vain hope that he might come back. Love you all. I think the list has been *great* the last coule of months. I've certainly laughed like an idiot at many a post. I might even have cried once or twice. Actually I'm crying now, but that's because my contact lens is playing up. Nick xxx +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+