OK, since my last post, I have got not inconsiderable amounts of flak for my point of view on Goths. First, it should be made clear that I do not hate goths at all, I have just found that all the ones I have met, with one notable exception have been really irritating. They can look the way they want, act the way want but like being a B&S fan (according to some): "It's kinda like being gay... you can see where they're coming from and respect them for it, but you wouldn't want to do it yourself"... (courtesy of Mathew Willson) No, that's not my problem with Goths, I rather like them being there to liven up the look of the world. My problems with them are: 1-They are very, very pretentious, pretentious people are annoying 2-They are incapable of laughing at themselves, anyone who is like this is a pain. I know this is similar to pretentiousness, but I felt it was worse. 3-They are cliquey. Cliquey people are just nasty 4-They are obsessed by their image. Taking care over it is one thing, being vain is another. 5-Goths, for all you may account it to youth, are really fake people to talk to. They're affected and will just go along with what all the other goths say so as to fit in. OK, so those points don't apply to all goths by any means, I understand that. Neither are they exclusive to goths. There maybe even be more nice goths other than the one I have met, OK, but the fact is, most Goths are really annoying. I should say that all this come from having met quite a lot of Goths in my time. I live in middle-class london, which among its main exports lists: Disaffected Youth Goths Wiggas Indiekids Twats Lawyers Money And I once went a-wandering in Whitby. Which was scary, but I did sit at the same table as some goths in a fish and chip shop. Apparently, Whitby is the Goth capital of Europe. Finally, I reckon that becoming a Goth is often an attempt a pulling. Which Justifies it somewhat. One another note: Hannah Brown declared me a Headteacher. Does this mean I get to order Ken around, being as he is a maths teacher? I have another sinister crush. I think I may have the beginnings of a crush on my alter-ego Ms. Pancake. Also, by the way, I have got a mysterious 40kb message from "Lee and Lisa" in reply to my last message. And I got a similar one from Archel the day before. Is there a virus going round or sommat? I also have a ridiculous celebrity crush on Thora Birch. I also have a crush on my friend Dan's sister Sam(antha), who I have never met but who I talk to on the phone occaisionally. She's 17, I have noooooo chance. !VIVA RACHELS! Rachel "Joe Vester" Pancake P.S. Alright, this wasn't much of a proper post, more a long-winded apology/explanation, and I'm sorry, I might do an apology/explanation for this post too. P.P.S.I may well go to the Obscured Camera gig. I don't own anything by them, but I did hear one song on the radio, and it was v.cool. P.P.P.S.I forgot to have pancakes as I was in a rush, I will have them tomorrow. Maybe I should buy some Maple Syrup. P.P.P.P.S. I like having all these new Brazilian types on the list. P.P.P.P.P.S. I sometimes think my rachel alter ego must confuse newbies. Am I called Rachel, or Joe? hard one... P.P.P.P.P.P.S. (last one, I promise) I know that they're really called Camera Obscura. My "obscura (geddit?) indie knowledge" is just about satisfactory" +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister@missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo@missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "peculiarly deranged fanbase" +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "frighteningly named Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +-+ "sick posse of f**ked in the head psycho-fans" - NME June 2001 +-+ +-+ Nee, nee mun pish, chan pai dee kwa +-+ +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+