Evening Sinisterines, I know I have only been on this list a very short time compared to most, and I too have already felt the presence of a "clique" but there is absolutely no where in this world where cliques don't exist in one form or another. The clique, that we have here as far as I see it, is of the most harmless of ones. I don't know Seb nor have I ever written to him, and although I have admired many of his postings I agree with Honey that he should not have gone too such an extreme without discussing it first in private. Already I see that Andrew has decided to unsubscribe and unfortunately there will probably be more to follow. As a newbie I have felt many times uncertainty when it came to posting here simply because of my feeling of marginalization, but lately it seems that many newbies have been expressing this concern so why is it that we can't feel welcome when we have each other? I respect the "seniority" of long-term list members without hesitation, but what is keeping us newbies from posting what we want to say (even if it isn't the most updated bit of info you ever did see). I'm not saying that we should just post nonsense about what happens to hit us while we are sitting at the keyboard, but we shouldn't be afraid to start our own conversation string. Who cares if a "selected elite" (which I don't even think exists) is judging our every word? Let them have their opinions and their "second list" if it pleases them, but that shouldn't mean the end of the main list. Obviously Honey cares for this list a great deal or the grief and worry in his posts about the state of the list wouldn't be so apparent. Yeah, there may be a small number of listees that are closer to Honey, and some of them may not agree with what he does. I think we should just trust Honey to set things straight, and I think we owe it to him not to listen to rumors until they have been substantiated. We are a family here. We should try to work out our problems, not run from them. I love you all too Justin W Felonius Monk "Often I tried the frightening way of "reality," Where things that count are profession, law, fashion, finance, But disillusioned and freed I fled away alone To the other side, the place of dreams and blessed folly." - Hermann Hesse, Wanderings +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister@majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo@majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+