December 1998 - Sinister

Sinister: music and autism
by Michaela Clarke +44 (131) 343 5810 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

I've been away and have just scanned quickly through 10 digests and noticed that there was a theme about music and autistic children so I thought I'd add my amusing little anecdote my boyfriend works with autistic children and last summer he spent a few days looking after this little boy. My boyfriend found that although the little boy did not say much he seamed to be singing to himself all the time although it was too quiet to hear what he was singing. My boyfriend felt this might be a way of getting through to him and so stated singing nursery rhymes to him. After putting up with this for nearly the whole day the little boy finally had enough and turned to my boyfriend saying " do you know this one ' Rebel rebel your face is a mess...' ?" it turned out the young lad was a huge Bowie Fan and he and my Boyfriend spent a week singing Bowie songs to each other. cute eh? it just goes to show...... now dilemma do you play cool music to your kids and make them cool or do you play crap music to them so that they rebel and listen to cool stuff? K'la +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

2 1

Sinister: when the open road is closing in....
by Corpora Arenacea 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

I ain't too proud to beg, so.... In about a week and a half I will be flying to England. I have made no plans, mainly because I know nothing about the place. In fact, except for a 12-hour stopover in Greece once (lightning strike- hey it could happen to you), I've never set foot on the continent. I'm terrified of being alone for two straight weeks on a cold island with no idea of where to go. And I'm too young and too stupid (sorry ye of childrearing age) to =not= go. So.... Umm.... Would anyone like to meet, sometime, between the 17th and January 3rd? I swear I'm not a psycho. I'll bring my papers, I'm off the thorazine. Pretty please...? I realize that I'm in something of a losing position, I mean, having to try and prove that I'm worth meeting, especially with as hopelessly bland a TV-derived accent as I have, but..... Anyway. Ummm, sorry for the lack of Belle and Sebastian-derived content. And coherence,and backbone, and all substance for that matter. I'll publicly thank anyone who responds ahead of time.... Thank you. -Eran ______________________________________________________ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

1 0

Sinister: Talk about... pop music
by Martin Horsfield 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

Oh my god, I've always enjoyed Heather's posts, but never in my life have I heard pop music described as being a 'movement'? Liking pop music is like enjoying chocolate - you know you shouldn't, but it works for you every time. In Britain, at least, we boys were always meant to be ashamed of pop. It was for girls and, of course 'puffs'. We boys were meant to like Prog/the Sex Pistols/Iron Maiden/Tortoise/Sterophonics (delete according to your generation and whether you had a state or private education). However, I dare say if any of us on this list thought back to the first music that genuinely moved them, it would be POP! It sure as hell wouldn't have been Faust. So many people live in denial of this fact because they are swept along by the peer group pressure of liking 'real' music and only really rediscover the POP! instinct when they start dancing, getting off with the opposite sex, taking Es, going to 70s nights, gay clubs, whatever. And of course, once they discover the joys of hedonism and having their hearts filled with music, they realise that its just as much fun to dance to Dionosaur Jr as it is to ABC because its all pop; musicians (with the possible exceptions of Luke Haines and Roger Waters) want you to play their music loud, evangelise about it, dance to it, buy it and make it popular. Why wouldn't they? I've always thought that all the greatest pop songs are essentially TRUTHS, whether that's Reach Out.. I'll Be There, Supersonic ("you've got to be yourself..."), So Far Away (Carole King, not Dire Straits), I Should Be So Lucky, Wake Up Boo, Do You Remember The First Time?, Too Many Broken Hearts, A Design For Life, Becoming More Like Alfie, Comfortably Numb, Even Men With Hearts Of Steel Love To See A Dog On The Pitch, Might Be Stars, Cruel Summer, So Much Love So Little Time, Kiss Me, Broken Heart, Can't Get Out Of Bed, Walk On By, A Summer Wasting or Stars Of Track And Field. (This partly explains why, in the words of Edwyn Collins, visiting US grunge bands playing in the middle of the bill at Reading "wonder why we can't connect/to the ritual of the trashed guitar") I know this might degenerate into a semantic argument, or worse still a petty regional one but to us Britons, calling pop a 'genre' is like us calling your Pop a sex offender. Martin Horsfield PS/To the person who asked, Pete Wylie's basically been charged with making threatening phone calls to his ex-wife (she's going out with an old mucker of his). According to my man at the Hope & Anchor, poor old Pete (who's coined the best song title of the year - 'Heart As Big As Liverpool) has been 'off his head' for about a year now. Sinful, eh? +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

2 1

Sinister: subject?- allsorts really, its hard to think of a witty, concise one liner.
by Mb00EN＠aol.com 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

Hello list people, This post is my hat-trick. It's monday at the moment. I have brought the new EP but have'nt had time to listen to it yet, damn these responsibilities. I went to the bigger shops but none of them had it, 'Belle and who?' they were heard to say. The sleeve reminds me of 'On the road', i think it must be the colour. I wonder if I'll like the gate song, it's hard to be objective when you hear other peoples opinions first, or am i just impressionable? Maybe it will be a 'grower', i like them best, i thought '3,6,9...' was rubbish at first ! I was happy to learn about the reissue of tigermilk, late spring you say?, more likely to be late summer then, record companies never get it right, i will apologise if they do.... but they wont. I'm still getting to grips with my new job, it's pretty boring. My boss is the sort of man who always seems happy, and it's bloody annoying. I wont say what it is he does (because you'd be so bored, believe me) but he's quiet a prominent figure in certain circles. The most annoying thing is his relentless enthusiasum, however i can cope with that because his office is down the hall and i dont have to put up with it most of the day. However what i do have to put up with is his bursts of jolly whistling echoing around the place, the offending tune is always 'Englands green and pleasant land'. So over the past couple of days when he's been in my office i've been quietly humming the chours to 'Mayfly' (I thought that had the strongest melody), i'd hoped that this would somehow sink in subliminally and replace 'Englands green and pleasent land'. Well a few days passed by and nothing happened, but i am pleased to announce today that my plan has worked. This afternoon he left for a meeting happily whistling 'Mayfly'. If only i worked at 10 Downing street, i'd take over the world. +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

1 0

Sinister: libraries.
by Jarkko Fr�ntil� 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

Thank god for libraries. My selection of cd's i borrowed from there today: -Gorky's zygotic mynci: bwyn time -The smiths is dead-compilation -grant lee buffalo: copperopolis -grandaddy: under the western freeway And on the cd-player of this computer now: Jay Jay Johanson: Tattoo. Luv it. Love etc, jarkko. ______________________________________________________ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

1 0

Sinister: LIST INVITE TO APPEAR IN "DIRTY DREAM #2" VIDEO
by Lance Bangs 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

Hello. This is a formal invitation to any interested list members to appear in the Belle and Sebastian video for "Dirty Dream #2." The video will be shot in Athens, Georgia on Saturday December 12th and Sunday December 13th. Twenty-five persons are needed. The intention is that each person featured will appear in an uncut ten second segment of film which will fade to black before bringing up the next person, filling the length of the song. We may be able to provide one night of lodging to people coming from outside of the area, but unfortunately can not pay people for appearing, as this is a rather simple production. Your participation should be fun, as we are filming flattering portraits of each of you engaged in some sort of charming and surreal entanglement or escapade. You needn't look anything like the sort of people that usually appear in videos, we want you because you care about the band and are an interesting person. Awkwardness and spastic qualities a plus. Come as you are. We will be filming mostly outdoors to take advantage of the gorgeous winter light here in Athens. We will need to begin early both days, as it gets dark around 6 pm. We are shooting on motion picture film, which invariably leads to some time waiting around while setting things up, so your patience is requested. The band will not be present at the filming, but Athens is a wonderfull town to visit on it's own merit, and perhaps meeting up with other list members and fans is incentive enough. If you are interested and can commit to being in Athens on the 12th and 13th, please respond to me at this account. Thank you, Lance Bangs +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

1 0

RE: Sinister: kids toda
by Sandra Duric 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

Ooops, sorry, pretty damn long - apologies! Hello all, Now, this is a lot more interesting than my morning woes of ripping apart our company web site and begging the internet service provider to tell me why I can't FTP! Is "pop" a movement? What is a movement? How do you define "pop"? And whether or not "kids today" have anything to rebel against? And can you even really call Belle & Sebastian pop? (my question - where do they file B&S in YOUR record shops?) Anastasia wrote: "I think something we need to decide before we discuss this any further is this: is 'pop", as heather called it, a 'movement'? it certainly is *not* a movement, I think, in the same way the mods..." Personally, I don't think a movement has to be about rebellion/politics. It can just be a group of people quietly affecting the world in small, but significant ways. I mean, if you think about Belle & Sebastian's lyrics, they are critiquing society's values as we live it today. Granted, the sweetness of the music doesn't immediately make you aware of the implications of what they are really saying - for example, Seymour Stein - isn't that a tongue in cheek criticism of the major label industry? And "Century of Fakers"?? The title says it all! Now, I'm not saying Belle & Sebastian are a movement - you need more than one band to do that; you need a whole bunch who fall into the same ideals and beliefs as them. I can't think of any as my mind is mired in HTML thoughts, but I've had the impression for the last 2 years that a certain honesty and thoughtfulness prevails in most of the "indie" music I listen to. It reminds me of the classic folk songs of the 60s that we all know but don't really remember the bands or the titles, like Dylan and Simon and Garfunkel and the Moody Blues. So, is there a change, a movement? I personally think so. Although, we'll know when commercial radio finally catches on and that may not happen for quite a while. As for what is "pop" and are Belle & Sebastian considered pop? Hmm, I don't think labels are all that important, unless you work at HMV or Virgin, and even then, I always thought alphabetizing the entire RockPopIndieSoul section would make my life a hell of a lot easier! Anastasia wrote: The thing is, to me it seems that kids these days don't have much to rebel against, and therefore the 'movements' (if you can call them that) that they 'subscribe' to don't tend to 'embody' their whole lives or styles or lifestyles. When you were a mod your were a MOD, it's who you were and it was what you were about. Maybe we don't have much to rebel against, or maybe we have so much we're overwhelmed and have decided to focus on being "individuals". True, there's been nothing like the MOD thing, the impact, the cultural significance, in the 90s, that I can think of. There was that entire new wave Duran Duran haircut deal happening in the 80s (and still happening today, what with Grosse Pointe Blank sending them all into fits of nostalgia). But if you look around as you're walking to the nearest tube/subway station and really see all the poverty, rather than rushing on to your job or your class, you'll realize that there are things to still rebel against. We just know that shouting and organizing ourselves into activist groups isn't always the best way. Music, quiet or loud, clever or not, has a more far-reaching on the younger generation that a riot on the streets of New York does - that's only really important to the New Yorkers/Americans. Belle and Sebastian have seriously touched people on every single continent, if the members on this list are any indication. Enough said - B&S say it way better than I can. Sandra - pseudo-intellectual mood today.... +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

3 2

Re: Sinister: kids toda
by Heather Marie Propes 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

On Fri, 4 Dec 1998, Cory O'Malley wrote: > There appears to be rather a digression in the actuality of these > themes within their respective musical subcultures. Far more kids were > having sex in the fifties than were kids taking drugs in the sixties > than were kids killing themselves in the seventies than were kids > killing other people in the eighties. My apologies for not responding sooner. I don't have an Internet connection at home, so whatever I write has to be written at work, quickly. Yes, I agree with your point here about the digression of experience. I think it can be seen on a wider social level (i.e. more than just youth culture). We've realized the destructiveness of so many experiences that used to be taken for granted (sex, drugs, etc) that by now we are just content to experience them by proxy (films, books, Internet). > I propose that kids have finally figured out that the danger of > rock/roll is just so much facade. I'm not so sure about this. One one level, it could be seen as facade, the teleological moment of "shocking" rock-n-roll are figures like G.G. Allin, Orlon(sp?), or Marilyn Manson - shock value for its own sake. Perhaps kids have seen through the shock effect to realize that the "shock" is a desperate attempt at attention that often comes without quality. But perhaps there is also a fear of the true danger of self-destruction and self-mutilation. > > So, now, there exists a new subculture, comprised of kids who are > concerned with "hugs, fuzzy sweaters, and camaraderie," as you have > noted. As the notion of youthful outrageousness and derision toward > older generations has become rather trite to certain groups of kids, > these groups have sought rather to undermine the tired themes of > rock/roll. > > It is still a rebellion, of sorts, but a rather friendlier one, and > aimed at a far more figurative and broader topic. > I agree with this. While the rebellion of past youth subcultures might have been expressed through example, today it is expressed more subtlely. Pop lyrics tell the stories of the kinds of lives and dangers that were formerly lived, in an ironic, literary way, and stop there. The focus of this music seems to be on the musical quality, the narrative, and the lyrics, rather than the demonstrative shockingness of a certain lifestyle. I think this emphasis on narrative lyrics is one example of the current tendency toward virtual experience rather than lived experience. One last question - "Rock-n-roll countercultures" of the past seemed to set themselves apart from mainstream culture not only for the satisfaction of attention-getting shock tactics, but also to protest the political status quo. Now, as with the element of "dangerous experiences", the element of overt political protest seems to be waning in "indiepop," (my apologies to those of you who disagree with the terms "indipop" or "pop", I am forced to categorize this music with one rather general word because I don't have time to come up with a truly appropriate description), although I would argue that political conditions in the world have gotten much worse. Could this be because, as with shock value, political protest in rock and roll seems to have grown trite and empty, and capitalism (and especially capitalism in rock n roll) seems to have grown so complex and intimidating that there is no way to fight against it without making a silly spectacle of oneself (you're gonna "sell out" anyway), or because of a sense of resignation to the world's problems, which are now so large that there is no point in protesting? Well, that's it for now. BTW - I had a particularly exciting weekend because I found "The Thrill of it All", the Roxy Music box set that I have been wishing for the past three years, used for $45. Ah, the thrill of it all, indeed! Ciao, Heather +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

1 0

Sinister: b&s miracle!
by Janine Papp 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

oooooeeeee the modern rock song ep has caused a small miracle to occur! you see, in my apartment, I have not just one, but 4 broken cd players. This is because every time a friend is about to throw away a broken cd player I say "I'll take it! I'll just get it fixed" and then I never have the money. Anyway, until recently, 2 of them were working but stopped a few weeks ago. So... I bought the ep after receiving this lovely e-mail which follows, and I was about to just give up and get one of my cd players fixed. Anyway, I popped the B&S in just for the hell of it, and IT STARTED WORKING. Then I put the cd in ANOTHER cd player, and IT ALSO STARTED WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!! so all weekend I could happily listen to it, as well as my fab galaxie 500 box set which just came in the mail. oooh yeah! so... now I am listening to tigermilk hoping to cure my stomach ache. so far I think it's working. now look at this e-mail I got from Other music - I can't believe they know what a total obsessive geek I am, but they sure do. point of pride or just pathetic? you decide. Queen Bee Janine --------------------------------------------------------- What up, Queen Bee: Tell all your friends, the Modern Rock Song EP from Belle and Sebastian is here today (12/2). -other music ---------------------------------------- Other Music 15 E. 4th Street New York, NY 10003 (212) 477-8150 http://www.othermusic.com sales(a)othermusic.com ---------------------------------------- +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

1 0

Sinister: Re: Untruth.
by James M Errington 07 Dec '98

07 Dec '98

the boy done wrong again splurted: > biggest dissapointment(S) > 1. Pulp THis is Hardcore (next time lock him back up with > the bottle and let him write the songs all in a weekend...worked > for DC didn't it?) Tcha! How dare you! It's in my top 5 for the year... It's an incredible piece of work... Unlike Morrisey who smells of wee... I'll abuse you later, but I've got a TIJAMRS CD in my hand and I'm itching to get up out of this chair and get home and listen to it. Love WeeJay xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx James(a)twopounds.u-net.com "I know there's a lot of bass players in the audience tonight, I know living amongst the constructions that the people in power have built doesn't feel so right" mAKE UP - "We Can't Be Contained" http://www.geocities.com/sunsetstrip/cabaret/5523/ (Which will no longer crash your computer. Hopefully.) +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list please mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". For list archives and searching, list rules, FAQ, poor jokes etc, see http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +---+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" +---+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

1 0