This post is critical of B&S and technical. Read at your peril!
Congratulations to Paul Clarke for daring to make 90% of the listees cry by
saying that Saturday was shit. He is right - they were so bad I almost
couldn't be arsed to go to the Sunday gig.
He is also correct to say that if they're only going to play a handful of
shows a year, the very least they could do is rehearse properly for them.
I'm a concert promoter for a living and a lot of things worried me about
the gigs....
The PA was shit. As was the company that supplied it and also the FOH engineer.
On the Sunday, two people were sitting on a 100Amp 3 phase cable near to
the C-Form / Camlock connectors. Not only is this highly dangerous, it also
breaches Health and Safety regulations. As a rule, mains cables should be
flown, but if they are laid across the floor, they need to be covered with
a carpet or something similar. Someone, could easily have been killed by an
electric shock the way the PA crew had left it.
The idea of a circular stack is interesting but not very practical,
especially with the hopeless engineers the band had employed. There were
'hotspots' all over the room which meant you had to walk around to find a
good spot where you could see AND hear. Delay stacks in all four corners
would have improved things as B&S are a very quiet band. Also, one stack
doesn't allow for a stereo separation which might have helped relieve the
tinny 'vocal PA' style sound.
The PA boxes, aside from being underpowered, were useless for the type of
music B&S play. Also, given that Stuart Murdoch has an unusual mic
technique (ie. he stands about 4 inches away as though he is scared of it),
I don't think a bog standard SM58 was the right choice. It made his voice
sound thin and tinny.
The sign of a good Front of House engineer is one who is constantly
tweaking things. In a live situation, it is nigh on impossible to attain a
'perfect' sound as the variables are changing all the time. Belle and
Sebastian's engineer seemed more concerned with taking photos and chatting
to mates. They should have sacked him on the Saturday.
All of this could be overcome by employing a reputable production manager
and doing some proper pre-production rehearsals. It's not as if the band's
schedule is killing them - they hardly do any promotional work at all - so
they've got plenty of time to sort out the live situation. A production
manager would ensure the PA is suitable for the band's sound, locate a
decent FOH engineer, assist Stuart with his mic problems (the records are
great so he obviously doesn't have a problem in the studio), get them some
instrument techs to avoid a repetition of the cello debacle and basically
shake them up.
I don't want to see them running on stage shouting 'Hey Manchester - we're
here to rock you' and playing a polished set with scripted intros to each
song. That wouldn't be Belle And Sebastian. Hell, I don't even mind Stuart
forgetting the words, that is all part of the appeal. What I do object to
is paying twenty quid for two gigs where no thought has been given to the
production of the show and someone is pocketing the cash from cutting
corners.
Maybe they should think about this and employ some professionals before
they next venture out. If they don't, the live audiences will dwindle and
they'll be back to playing libraries and cafes where no-one minds if it's
shit because they've only paid three quid to get in.
Mark
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Quick one - first "picture" of the gigs in manchester on the WWW page
(URL in the footer). Now I'm waiting for one of the right hand side of
the stage please - something doodled by a 6 year old would be nice.
Honey
P.S. Don't misread me if I am incoherent - keep up the debate and for
god's sake don't stop swearing. Just occasionally buy each other a pint
too.
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Dear all
A quick one before I go to London.
Firstly, regarding parties...well maybe it was alcohol talking (I
found some whisky after I went out with JJ and Rach), but it was
genuinely cool to meet some of you and it would be nice if we could
have some sort of get-together without the 'distractions' of some pop
group or other. I'll be in London a lot in the next 3 months and I'm
planning a trip up to Glasgow soon, so even if it's just a pint or
two....
Secondly, the case of the Duke vs JJ - well forgive me for being a
woolly liberal, but I'm going to sit on the fence a bit more on this
matter. I think we all realise that both sides were playing devil's
advocate - no one wants to be electrocuted and waiting ages to see
your favourite band only to have bad sound ruin the day is a major
league pisser, but I don't think anyone of us wants to see the boredom
of immaculately rehearsed, but ultimately soulless renditions of what
is already on the records. I remember all this from New Order gig
going days (god I'm old), accusations of arrogance and incompetence,
but the simple truth was that their unpredictability was their charm
and when they hit a peak they could be simply awesome. I think Belle
and Sebastian would lose a great deal of what makes them special by
striving for technical perfection. This isn't blind faith talking,
no-one is above criticism and I certainly don't regard the group as
superheroes, in fact what I like about the group is the fact that 8
normal and likable kids have found something magical.
I think you all know what I mean.
Right I've got a train to catch.
Love
Tag xx
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Last summer I saw Belle and Sebastian video on MTV. I´m not sure about what
song it was, could it be Le Pastie de la Bourgousie? Can anyone tell me?
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In response to the question of whether Stuart M. is balding in the "Dog On
Wheels", perhaps it is really a monk's tonsure. Oh, that would explain so
much--he is really a fallen monk forced to write melancholy songs for
eternity. Truly not such a horrible divine punishment.
Awaiting further important discoveries in 1998,
Love
Matthew
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speaking of joy division, is the new box set worth it? i love peter
saville's artwork...
on an unrelated note, does anyone know how to copyright a body of work?
toodles!
samiam
'moves on reaction
then slumps in despair' - joy division
> I bought Tindersticks latest album ("Curtains" I believe) just before =
> Chrimbo, because I thought Mr Staples sounded just like Ian Curtis - Joy =
> Division.
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Hey Belle and Sebastian Fans:
In case you are interested, the Tweenet charts have in their annual year-end poll Belle and Sebastian kicking everyone's ass in virtually every category from "Bands you could not live without" to "Best EP of the Year" (of which B&S got first, second, and third place). Even this email list won an award for being "Best Mailing List (other than indiepop)". I've never seen a band dominate a tweenet poll so heavily. Not even the Smiths or the Field Mice did.
Matt
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Hi,
Are all of you on already on the Indie-Pop list? If not, here are the
B&S-relevant results. B&S won nearly every applicable category and the
Sinister list was voted "the coolest mailing list or newsgroup besides
indie-pop." (We all know Sinister's the coolest of them all, of course.
;-) Congrats to HoneyPaul on that.) I regret to report that none of the
B&S gang won "Most Fancied Indiepop Personality". Judging from all the
recent gushing about the glittering goddess Isobel, she'll get some votes
in that one next year!
Ciao now ..
- Nicole
Indiepop Poll 1997 Results
==========================
Cool mailing list or newsgroup besides indiepop:
1. Sinister (Belle and Sebastian List)
The bands you couldn't live without:
1. Belle & Sebastian
Most listened to longplay records:
1. Belle & Sebastian - If You Are Feeling Sinister
10. Belle & Sebastian - Tigermilk
Pop songs your new boyfriend should really know about:
1. Belle & Sebastian - A Century Of Fakers
2. Belle & Sebastian - Photo Jenny
Most promising new acts:
1. Belle & Sebastian (tied with Shoestrings)
Most amazing live experiences:
1. Belle & Sebastian
Best EP or mini-LP:
1. Belle & Sebastian - 3..6..9 Seconds of light
2. Belle & Sebastian - Dog On Wheels
Belle & Sebastian - Lazy Line-Painter Jane
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I wasn't there on the Saturday and a lot of people do seem a bit miffed
by the proceedings but I have to say again that the sound quality on
Sunday afternoon was fantastic; the clearest most perfect noise I've
ever heard at a gig. Was it different machines? or just plugged in
properly? I think the points made about safety are also very
significant.
But on a lighter note - 2 things.
1. For the first time in my life I picked up a bargain in the new year
sales today. I bought this black corduroy outfit for 50% off! So if
anyody's having a party and they need someone to lend a certain
insouciant glamour then let me know (and I'll ask around...).
2. Also bought Wu-Tang Forever. FANTASTIC. Anybody with the slightest
hip in their hop should get it at their earliest.
xxxxx
John
No snogging at new year :(
>----------
>From: Mark[SMTP:mark@avnet.co.uk]
>Sent: 02 January 1998 13:55
>To: sinister(a)majordomo.net
>Subject: Sinister: Telling it how it is.... (Manc gigs)
>
>This post is critical of B&S and technical. Read at your peril!
>
>Congratulations to Paul Clarke for daring to make 90% of the listees cry by
>saying that Saturday was shit. He is right - they were so bad I almost
>couldn't be arsed to go to the Sunday gig.
>He is also correct to say that if they're only going to play a handful of
>shows a year, the very least they could do is rehearse properly for them.
>
>I'm a concert promoter for a living and a lot of things worried me about
>the gigs....
>
>The PA was shit. As was the company that supplied it and also the FOH
>engineer.
>On the Sunday, two people were sitting on a 100Amp 3 phase cable near to
>the C-Form / Camlock connectors. Not only is this highly dangerous, it also
>breaches Health and Safety regulations. As a rule, mains cables should be
>flown, but if they are laid across the floor, they need to be covered with
>a carpet or something similar. Someone, could easily have been killed by an
>electric shock the way the PA crew had left it.
>
>The idea of a circular stack is interesting but not very practical,
>especially with the hopeless engineers the band had employed. There were
>'hotspots' all over the room which meant you had to walk around to find a
>good spot where you could see AND hear. Delay stacks in all four corners
>would have improved things as B&S are a very quiet band. Also, one stack
>doesn't allow for a stereo separation which might have helped relieve the
>tinny 'vocal PA' style sound.
>
>The PA boxes, aside from being underpowered, were useless for the type of
>music B&S play. Also, given that Stuart Murdoch has an unusual mic
>technique (ie. he stands about 4 inches away as though he is scared of it),
>I don't think a bog standard SM58 was the right choice. It made his voice
>sound thin and tinny.
>
>The sign of a good Front of House engineer is one who is constantly
>tweaking things. In a live situation, it is nigh on impossible to attain a
>'perfect' sound as the variables are changing all the time. Belle and
>Sebastian's engineer seemed more concerned with taking photos and chatting
>to mates. They should have sacked him on the Saturday.
>
>All of this could be overcome by employing a reputable production manager
>and doing some proper pre-production rehearsals. It's not as if the band's
>schedule is killing them - they hardly do any promotional work at all - so
>they've got plenty of time to sort out the live situation. A production
>manager would ensure the PA is suitable for the band's sound, locate a
>decent FOH engineer, assist Stuart with his mic problems (the records are
>great so he obviously doesn't have a problem in the studio), get them some
>instrument techs to avoid a repetition of the cello debacle and basically
>shake them up.
>
>I don't want to see them running on stage shouting 'Hey Manchester - we're
>here to rock you' and playing a polished set with scripted intros to each
>song. That wouldn't be Belle And Sebastian. Hell, I don't even mind Stuart
>forgetting the words, that is all part of the appeal. What I do object to
>is paying twenty quid for two gigs where no thought has been given to the
>production of the show and someone is pocketing the cash from cutting
>corners.
>
>Maybe they should think about this and employ some professionals before
>they next venture out. If they don't, the live audiences will dwindle and
>they'll be back to playing libraries and cafes where no-one minds if it's
>shit because they've only paid three quid to get in.
>
>
>Mark
>
>
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>
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Happy new year everybody, hope you all had a great hogmanay, if you were
in edinburgh you may have seen me wandering around: kilt,wooly hat with
very large bobble.
Iwas glad to hear saturday wasn't up to much, it makes me feel so much
better for missing it, but it's also lovely to hear how much you all
enjoyed the gigs anyway.
On a tindersticks note, I was listening to curtains the other day and came
to the conclusion that if B&S were locked in a brothel with nothing to
live on but Gaulois and Courvoisier they would end up sounding just like
the tindersticks,who I also adore.
Hope you all have an amazing 1998.
Colin
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