June 1999 - Sinister - missprint.org

Re: Sinister: Sincere apology
by P68d6ern＠aol.com 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

Hello again, and hello Chris I am breaking my personal rule of posting more than once a day, but I will break this rule to answer Chris's letter. All I was trying to do was make two points: 1. it is unfair to compare one band to another, and as Chris stated comparisons between the Smiths and B&S do imply that B&S rips of the Smiths--which I believe they do not; 2. conformity is a bad thing. I am glad that Chris stands by his opinion, and he has every right to do so. And just because we disagree on a few points does not give either of us a reason to snipe at each other. So Chris apology excepted, and remember: "it's easy to laugh it's easy to hate/it takes strength to be gentle and kind." Once again, have a nice day all, esp Chris. Joseph +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Free to be T***, free to be you and me!!!
by rebelstrange＠ldd.net 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

>Smiths, I must reply to the message below. THIS WILL NOT STAND! Morrissey said it himself: "Don't forget the songs that made you cry/And the songs that saved your life". ah, wee Chris mcquain. the wetblankets thought they'd do you in, but they were SOO wrong. your passionate defense of the revolutionary nature of private angst has brought a tear to my eye. you's my kind of people. Here's a drink raised to you, aye!! I'd say B/S seem.....much similar to the smiths in some ways....the sentiment of the stories comes from a different perspective--stuart's songs are usually from the point of view of a different character each time, wondering about their own personal dreams and whimsies. the ethic is more expansive, but in teh end i think it comes down to the same thing---the day to day to day passions of some random human being, whether it be always morrissey(sic?), or either judy or sebastian or jane, *do* have the power to resonate with us. at least i believe so. in the decade of coke-snorting and fabulous excess, who was wondering about the private alienation of some lonely disenfranchised sad teenager?? i'll bet the smiths music made an impact in more people than we can imagine. and let me second the brilliance of Luke Haines!! i didn't know they had a new single out. ARGH they are fabulous! New Wave was on of the records i cut my guitar-playing teeth on. i still admire his elegant simplicity of style. those songs are so much fun to play...... Sell-out pride: sometimes i just LIKe things what are pretty and make me feel nice. there is a time for angry Womyn, a time for esoteric solipsistic weirdness for the fuck of it, a time for trying so hard to break barriers you end up wrecking your brains in the impossibility of such a deed. and there is a time for nice sweet pretty music that makes you feel all daisy-chained and want to pick pink posies for your darling and cuddle baby lambs and hold tiny tiny frogs in the palm of your hand and sigh dreaming on the dewy moss in the haze of the sunshine. all Humbuggers: Dr. Tweeasfuck prescribes 2 tablespoons daily of "Tree Lullaby", a pink and blue capsule of "Poupee de Cire" by France Gall, and bi-weekly recorder lessons. we need to clear our minds now and then. i tire of my vicious defense of feminist theory, my brain gets boggled. nothing wrong with cute nice girls now, nothing wrong at all. in any case--the double-speak of being on a belle and sebby list and complaining about teh crime of innocuousness? what's revolutionary about B&S?? ultimately, now. tell me. they have a conscience, they have style, they have grace.....but in the final analysis--it's all pretty nice music that makes your heart go pitter-patter. (my opinion, take with grain of salt) it's been done before, admit it!! and YOU like it!!! you eat it up out the palm of stuart's saintly hand!!! "pwetty pwetty pwease, more sweet music, stwuan!!!" you SALIVATE for it. you fear to admit how un-hep it is to dance along to a recorder solo in a song that misleadingly is about a sexual apparatus! You pathetic romantics. i pity you all......... :o) and me the worst offender by far!! there, i've said it, i'd say it again if i had to. ABBA is fucking great!!! admit it you poseurs!!! You dance along to madonna's "lucky star" in the darkness of your own bedroom, cos you can't shake the primal urge to shake your money thang to something totally idiotic and insubstantial. THAT is P!O!P! pretty pretty pretty pop!!!! sugar sugar sugar, sugar pie honeybunch, lalalalalalafuckingla!!! Louie lou-eye, ooh ooh we got go!!!! Joy and terror and loneliness and longing and lust and rage and irony balled up into bite-size capsules of PURE emotion. it's what you want, it's what you know, it's what you NEED! i apologize for that outburst. i'm fascinaated by the topic of shaving and hairiness. i was having an argurment with my friend sam the other day cos i said i find someone's natural body odor more sexy than perfume. she said "not when they havne't bathed for 3 weeks" which wasn't the issue, i dont' know ayone who doesn't bathe. but i hate perfume, it makes me feel ill, it was invented because ppl in olden days never bathed, and they needed something so obnoxious it would drown out their own bodily filth. the obnoxiousness continues. i dont' like it, it's fake. it's a fascinating idea for me to notice i am transfixed by the fact i can smell the scent of someone's body, and it doesn't bother me, in fact it sticks in my brain and turns me on. i think it's primal. i'm not talking being absolutely rank and filthy, just the natural way your deodorant/whatever may wear off in teh course of a day. you know. sweat is very sexy. if i'm attracted to someone i'm not gonna be picky about how perfect they are, i want THEM all the way. every 'imperfection'. "the Voice that stands for floods to me/is sterile born to some/the face that makes the morning mean/glows impotent on them" some Emily Dickinson for you all, in the guise of the Poetry Peewit. it excites me to no end to fantasize i'm finding beauty in something other people would never notice. and on that note. i want to re-iterate my tirades are not personal attacks on anyone who disagrees! i just have a big fat mouth, and i'm in a weird mood these days. argument and debate is the spice of life. contradictions make me wet. missed me missed me now you gotta kiss me, LJ mike j. i must fervently agree with you as to the weirdness of this summer. fuck fuck!!!! this summer is blowing my fwagile wittle mind. i'm in some weird universe. http://www.members.tripod.com/rebelstrange they were like those gauche youths who turn up to house parties only to cling to the dark corners in chaste disdain, driven by the naive, vaguely inhuman conviction that all merriment is a lie. SAVE MST3K!!!! http://www.mst3kinfo.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Felt Up at the Philly Marine Research show...
by bkim0＠dept.english.upenn.edu 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

Howdly doodly Sinisterinos First I just wondered if any of you are going to see Marine Research next Thursday (July 8th) at Stalag 13 in Philadelphia. It should be a good time...feel free to drop a mail if you are. I can't guarantee that you'll get felt up there as my subject header ominously predicts, but if you're looking for that kind of treatment, dress accordingly...:) (What???) Secondly re: Felt starting points. There are a few routes you could take. Felt can roughly be carved up into three categories: a) Jangly spindly guitar atmosphere period aka Maurice Deebank era (Crumbling The Antispetic Beauty, The Splendour of Fear) b) Jangly spindly guitar + keyboards period aka Maurice Deebank and Martin Duffy era (Ignite The Seven Cannons, The Strange Idols Pattern And Other Stories) c) Somewhat jangly guitar + heavy keyboards period aka Martin Duffy era (Forever Breathes The Lonely Word, Poem Of The River, Let The Snakes Crinkle Their Heads To Death (instr.), Train Above The City (instr.), Pictorial Jackson Review, Me And A Monkey On The Moon, Space Blues, and I'm sure I'm missing something else) Categories B and C yield some interesting similarities to Belle and Sebastian's sound, but A is my personal favorite. Somewhat like the Cocteau Twins without so much chorus and delay, and slightly "worse" (more like more unique!) vocals. However it could get a little too sparse and depressing for you (I believe they could gloom it up with the best of 'em back then), and things get poppier towards the end. You could try period B for a bit of both and decide which way you want to go. This is probably best summed up with _The Strange Idols Pattern_ and _Ignite The Seven Cannons_. The CD (can't remember which album, since they're both on the one disc) contains "Primitive Painters", a very epic slow groove song with the Cocteau Twins' Liz Fraser (Robin Guthrie produced) that's amazing, even if the guitars get a little too processed under Guthrie's heavy hand. Don't be too shocked at Lawrence's voice though. That's probably the make-or-break element to the band, 'cause the music otherwise is pretty enough and not quite as distinctive, relatively speaking. He's not exactly always in tune but you can hear passion and drama in his voice. He don't sound nothin' like Stuart, that's for sure. More like Lou Reed + Bob Dylan + David Byrne + Bryan Ferry + ? Actually I take that back. Maurice Deebank's guitar (as has been discussed before) was as distinctive as Lawrence's voice, just more in tune and waaaay more articulate. _Me and A Monkey_ is a bit country (not that there's anything wrong with that) and a bit synthy (bad clav sounds...but good Moog sounds, very ahead of their time) and bit more convetional, song-structure-wise. Still good though! And it has some deliciously creamy pedal steel on "I Can't Make Love To You Anymore." This post probably fits well under the "Too Helpful" category heading, doesn't it? Well, there are probably nine million other Felt-heads here, so please feel free to add or correct or elaborate. You may find yourself born in the back of a mobile shack, Xavier BXK M o t h e r , M a y bkim0(a)dept.english.upenn.edu I S l e e p http://www.english.upenn.edu/~bkim0 W i t h D a n g e r ? X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X---X +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Sincere apology
by McQuain, Chris 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

Hello all and esp. Joseph- I would like to say that I deeply regret the tone of my earlier post. While I stand by my opinion, it was wrong of me to be so vehement and, yes, a bit reactionary. What I really wanted to express was that I am very sensitive to people criticizing this band (The Smiths), as I honestly feel they helped to shape who I am, and they're still quite sacred to me. I have friends who love The Smiths and who also smoke and drink and eat meat, and I wouldn't dream of telling them they're out of line, that's not for me to decide. I don't consider myself a fascist or part of any Army, and I'm perfectly happy amongst people who don't even like The Smiths. But I really do think there's much to identify with in the music of The Smiths, I find it warm and generous and welcoming, and it doesn't feel to me like it's pushing people away or asking for pity at all. Okay, I'm going to resist my immense temptation to go on and on about why exactly I still think The Smiths are relevant, and just say that we're all here because we like one band, and I agree with Joseph 100% that the Belle & Sebastian and Smiths comparisons should stop, it's not fair, and those comparisons seem to imply that B&S are 'ripping off' The Smiths, which I wholeheartedly disagree with. Also, that while The Smiths hold a special place in my heart, Belle & Sebastian touch the same part of me that The Smiths touch, with their entirely different approach. I wish this had been my earlier message and not the post I sent, but that was how I felt, I just expressed it in a rather nasty way and I really do apologize, to Joseph and everybody, for that. I don't think Joseph's opinion makes him unintelligent or wrong or antagonistic or anything, and really the thought that anybody would think I'm out to hurt anybody's feelings is unbearable to me. Forgiveness please? Sadly and regretfully- -Chris :( +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Lighten up, it is only an opinion
by P68d6ern＠aol.com 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

Hello All, I find it truly amazing that certain people did not pick up on the irony of my statement (As if my subject line was not enough of a hint). Granted, I do believe in what I had said, but I chose to write in an over the top manner that is similar to many of Morrissey's lyrics. I find Chris's response to my letter proves my point about Smiths fans better then I did myself: His reaction was one of knee-jerk anger, with obvious attempts to hurt my feelings. I am oh so sorry Chris for not following in the lockstep fashion (fascism) of the Smiths Army (by the way Chris, if I still felt the same way about the band now as I did when I was 16 would mean that I have not grown as a person since then--maybe one day you will understand what I mean and not react in such a manner). I find that there is no point in further responding to Chris's statement, because it will be like attempting to discuss the pros of Capitalism with a member of the Red Guard. And thank-you to Justin for picking up on a part of what I was saying: Imagine if you will Justin, being a person like myself (well imagine me at 16) who smokes, likes to have a drink or two and being a Smiths fan (which, contrary to what some people may think I still am--why does irony seem to be lost on so many?), and having a legion of male and female Morrissey clones "tsk tsk" you and call you an animal killer because you order a drink from the bar at a Smiths show? So you are right, my perspective was different; because I did not conform to what was expected of a Smiths fan I was seen as the "enemy" by lonely kids from the suburbs who today probably work in dreary jobs and watch Ally Mcbeal--oh, and probably have forgotten about their "childish" attempts at being a vegetarian. The point--if it is not clear by now--is that any type of conformity is negative (even if this conformity is for the supposed "liberal" ideals of someone like Morrissey. I say "supposed" because I remember in the late 80s early 90s Morrissey took on a very pro-British attitude that some at the time found to be slightly racist--but I digress...), and the conformity that surrounded Smiths fans went against the notion of personal freedom which should be important to anyone who has any sensitivities to others; and I feel that Belle and Sebastian--and the band's fans--represent this notion better than those of the Smiths. (I have a feeling that some might read too much into what I just said; meaning that I have a grudge, that I was not "liked" by Smiths fans or something like that. I am just using an example of something that happened--at the time I found their idiocy both funny and sad.) That's about it. I'm off to listen to "The Queen is Dead" (ha ha). Please remember that it is healthy to disagree and to argue in an intelligent manner--and to keep an open mind. Have a nice day all, Joseph +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: and if you can stand, I would like to take you by the hand
by Graham MacArthur 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

Dear sinisterines, You've been talking a bit about sleater kinney and hairy armpits of late, which reminded me of something which has been on my mind in the last, say, six months or so. I've wanted to start a band, but havent found any female bands, apart from the now gone Kenikie, to influence me. Sleater Kinney are too abrasive for weak middle class souls like me (although I still like listening to them, I couldn't attempt to sound like them) Velocette a bit too wishy washy (apart from 'get yourself together' which is popmagic). People curse me for saying "I want to be in a band so I can be famous" but lots of special people wanted fame more than a journey of musical discovery. I know Belle and Sebastian wanted nothing less than their body on the cover of the NME, but I want lots of money and matching poodles, and I'm not ashamed of that. It would be fabulously trashy, and theres a bit of you that wants it too. I love the magic and superficial things, infact I wish to be more shallow, so that life would become more simple. It's grim up north, you know. We travelled in silver rolls royces at 30mph on roads looking over the yorkshire hillside, shining against all the greyness. Everyone near london should come to the picnic at the weekend. Infact I insist you come, for I'll be baking things (the things are not babies, by the way, but cakes). Tres bizare.. Erica x +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Harry was born at such an early age
by Natasha Rachel 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

Hello smutsters. If anyone wants to know where the summer goes, then I can exclusively reveal that it's here in the rightermost corner of the Mediterranean. I'll do my best to bring it with me to the London picnics at the weekend. If you're going to one or both of them - and let's face it, you should be - then take a minute to leave a little message on the board so we can get the atmosphere started. Have a look, there's even an easy peasy lemon squeezy link here: belleandsebastian.co.uk/cgi-bin/mboard/belle/thread.cgi?272,0 In I Know Where The Summer Goes, I thought that "I know where the summer dwells/ When your underarm smells" was "I know where the summer dwells/ When you're under our spell". The concept of context (try saying THAT 3 times quickly [*] ) is again blatantly disregarded and overruled by the conviction that the mishearing "sounds good". Well it does. And while we're on the subject, the first time I heard Music Sounds Better With You, I thought the "Love might bring us back together" line was "Last night we slept together". [*] Incidentally, how much wood WOULD a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood? My computer was sick for nearly a week and now it's better you're all bored of the threads I wanted to add to. So I shall be brutally selective and just pick the "what to do if you're depressed" subject (which somehow turned into "what to listen to- or not- when you're depressed"). Michael Head and the Strands talk about "Things that get you/ when you're alone/ they try to break you/ forgetting you're stoned". You could take that as the go-ahead to get so high you can't feel the pain, but a better solution, if only temporary sometimes, is simply to go out with your friends. It's especially helpful to get yourself around people who dispense hugs at the slightest hint something is wrong. Nine times out of ten a heartfelt hug will not fail to make you feel at least a little bit better. And that's my tip of the day. I accidentally thought up a Belle & Sebastian -related competion but I'll tell you about that next time. Natasha xx _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Re: smiths defense
by Justin Williams 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

Good day lovely ones, I of course would never hesitate to defend the smiths, but for the most part not only did Chris do a mighty fine job himself, I think that they really defend themselves. To Joseph, I am sure his opinions are valid and substantiated and to others like him too so it is really hard to say that one opinion is right and the other wrong. All I can really say is that of course Morrissey sings about himself because is that is who he knows best. I think the one of the values of the smiths, at least for me, was the fact that I could relate to the lyrics. And the fact that the lyrics were put forth genuinely and so personally I find them that much more satisfying. If he were to try to speak for a generation of popsters instead of letting his own viewpoints draw the generation to him I think it would be all too obvious. One last thing before I get back to work, Joseph mentioned that B&S and smiths songs have had their fair share of sadness, but B&S seems to find comfort in them....I personally found an immeasurable amount of comfort in almost every "sad" smiths song so I can't really agree with him there. I don't want this to be an attack on Joseph at all, so I hope it is all taken in stride. When I first read his post, yeah, I immediately disagreed with him, but that alone is not enough to challenge the validity of his thoughts. One thing that I thought about that may or may not have made a difference, I am 22 and I think Chris is 23, so considering Joseph was at a more mature age during the smiths peak he may have had a different perspective on the scene. This is also easy for me to say since I wasn't the first to come to the smiths' defense, but anyhow take care everyone... Justin W Felonius Monk +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: The Smiths, God bless them
by McQuain, Chris 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

I sent this message once before but never received it, so I don't think it went through. Forgive me if anybody gets this twice. ***************************************************** While I think it is unfair to both bands to compare Belle & Sebastian to the Smiths, I must reply to the message below. THIS WILL NOT STAND! Morrissey said it himself: "Don't forget the songs that made you cry/And the songs that saved your life". It's easy to dismiss Morrissey as 'narcissistic' without acknowledging that any time a performer gets on a stage without a paper bag on his/her head, in one way or another they're asking that the spotlight be put on them. This is what P!O!P! is, if you're not going to accept that all pop is a cult of personality (besides faceless mechanical techno drivel) then I don't understand why you would take part in the very cult of personality that the Sinister list is. It's a double standard that completely undermines Joseph's argument. The Smiths got their start on an indie label, were staunchly anti-Thatcher, and are held up today by most as a shining example of an '80s band who did NOT personify their time. Billy Bragg, Mr. Red Wedge himself, was on TV a month ago singing the praises of the Smiths' politically conscious songs, and wishing they were still making new ones. I think that Joseph displays an attitude that is, ironically, much more 1980s than anything you could ever pin on the Smiths. This attitude seems to say that now that the novelty is gone, now that you're no longer a 16-year-old whose very existence is being validated by The Smiths, you can just toss them aside, they're of no use any more, forget about them. In reality, The Smiths were a perfect pop band, I would personally say the best ever, with beautiful music, sadness AND humor, and all of it was so full of hope for kindness and love in the world; any cynicism or spite in the music comes directly from the disappointment of that hope. As I've grown older, I've found nothing but more layers and depth to The Smiths' music. Pigeon-holing it as narcissistic and sad is just lazy, it's jumping on a bandwagon and not thinking for yourself, because any real listen to the Smiths music reveals a range that encompasses pure misery, pure joy, and anything in between. I remember a couple years ago when Luke Haines of the Auteurs/Black Box Recorder dismissed Morrissey, saying 'I don't really care about this man any more'. Now, I LOVE Luke Haines, think he's a genius (everybody go buy the new Auteurs single "The Rubettes" right now!), but when he said that he was revealing an embarrassing anxiety of influence. I refuse to believe that the Auteurs could be what they are without The Smiths being there first, and if The Smiths weren't spinning 'round on Stuart M's turntable, we may have had Belle & Sebastian, but I bet they'd sound a hell of a lot different without that influence. We all know Belle & Sebastian still love The Smiths, even covered 'Reel Around the Fountain', and I would assume most of us on the list wouldn't be so quick to discard them as Joseph is. I fully credit Morrissey for any interest I've ever had in pop music- he was one of the few public personalities who ever seemed really passionate about it, regardless of his sometimes narrow taste. He made it okay to find comfort in your record collection, when people have let you down. This may seem like narcissism or selfishness to some, but in so many ways it really did save my life. I hope I'm not the only one who jumps to the defense of this band. Though I certainly think Joseph has a right to his opinion, I think his arguments are completely baseless, to the point of being merely antagonistic. It worked. -Chris -----Original Message----- From: P68d6ern(a)aol.com To: sinister(a)Majordomo.net Sent: 6/28/99 1:56 PM Subject: Sinister: Proof that I have too much free time Hello All, Just this morning I was thinking about the comments people have made comparing the Smiths to Belle and Sebastian; I came to the conclusion that there is no comparison what so ever. I recently re-listened to some Smiths albums and I realized that they no-longer hold any importance for me at all (except as nostalgia), and the reason for this is the complete self-absorption of Morrissery's lyrics. As I 16 year old I was fascinated by songs such as HAND IN GLOVE, but now all I can say is, "who cares." Not to say that the song is bad (I do think that it is a good song), but the sentiment, the emphasis on the "me" did not appeal to me at all. Thus the difference with Belle and Sebastian (also the difference between 16 year old me and 30 year old me). Both the Smiths and B&S have lyrics that are "sad" but the lyrics of B&S songs seem to find comfort in this sadness; a "we all have bad times, but we will get over it" tone. And the characters in B&S songs are more sympathetic: the characters of Smiths songs, to me, seem to invite nothing but pity. Maybe this difference is due to the difference in the (look out, pretentious word alert) zeitgeist of the 80's and 90's. The 1980s was a time of every man and woman for his/herself; all was about making money and having more toys than the next person. The Smiths were seen as a reaction against this, but I feel that their self-absorption fits right in with this attitude (I know Morrissery was an advocate for animal rights, but this does not take away from the egotism of his music--I am talking about music only). B&S have a wider world view, a very 90's world view, where almost anyone is able to place themselves in the situations of B&S songs (emotional if not actual experience). Listening to a Smiths song one has the impression that every lyric is about Morrissery and his obsessions; listening to B&S one has the impression that they have a view that goes further than their nose. Another way for me to put this is to use an example of what some critic had said about the Beatles: the Beatles music and lyrics was seen as comforting, aurally wrapping their collective arms around the listener. I think that the music of B&S is similar because even though the songs may be sad, so many people (from what I have gathered from postings) listen to B&S and leave feeling better. One final point--the fans. Fans of the Smiths took on not only Morrissery's "attitude" but also his look. I remember hordes of teenagers dressing like Morrissery: the hair, the glasses, even the hearing aid. There was a cult of personality around Morrissery that does not exist with B&S, and this lack of a cult of personality around B&S is not only another difference from the Smiths, but is also a very good thing. Sorry this was so long, but I did try to condense my thoughts. I hope my point comes through. Regards, Joseph PS I noticed that my spell check says to replace "Morrissery" with "morosely"--just a concidence perhaps? +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: I'm in a mess, I'm in a dress
by philip hill 29 Jun '99

29 Jun '99

Today's Time Out magazine includes a guide to New York. Under the cabaret listing is the following: "Kiki & Herb at Fez: This drag cabaret act offers a programme of entertainment that will leave you screeching with laughter. Kiki plunders everything from Tori Amos and the Wu-Tang Clan to Belle & Sebastian and Momus in her own drunken, debauched fashion..." Just thought you should know. KingP _____________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the reborn Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail "sinister(a)majordomo.net". To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to "majordomo(a)majordomo.net". WWW: http://www.majordomo.net/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "jelly-filled danishes" +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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