February 2000 - Sinister

Sinister: of forgotten thoughts and remembered dreams
by Justin Williams 17 Feb '00

17 Feb '00

Afternoon dreamers and thinkers, After much hesitation and thought I've finally brought myself to at least attempt a first time in a long time post. For those of you who don't know me, which I imagine is just about everyone on the list that doesn't frequent #sinister, my name's Justin. I don't post for the same reason most people don't post: although I have many beautiful concepts and thoughts floating through my head at any one given moment, putting them into words is a task to which I rarely feel prepared. Even now, I am fully aware that I am just tip-toeing word to word, hoping that a mosaic is being created before my blind eyes...all the while knowing it will be nothing of the sort. Every now and then I get the notion that the key lies in being able to communicate exactly what one is thinking at the moment, and not what may have been stirring around in one's head an hour or day before. That of course is highly relative. Another reason I don't post is that I have fallen a little back in my B&S listenings. The feeling, you know, is still very much there...just nothing tangible at the moment. Because of that, this will probably be my last post for another, what 5 months or so? I just don't have anything new to say about our boys/girl, and I can't seem to muster the creativity to expound on any of the subjects spinning around lately (depression, sexual preference, etc.). That brought me to thinking about the nature of creativity, which I won't go off on, but I only get the desire to post when I feel "divinely" inspired. However, I find myself confronted with a double-edged sword in the sense that once I feel inspired, when I sit down to communicate that eternal feeling associated with listening to well crafted music...I draw a blank. Nothing I might say could even communicate one-twentieth of what I'm feeling. I know there is no conceivable way that I am the only one on the list to experience this, but I may be one of the only ones who can't seem to overcome it. For example, last night I was laying on my couch listening to Mojave 3, and all of a sudden I had an insight into the essence of our world. And by "our world", I mean the world of those of us not only on sinister but the world of anyone who feels like music is simultaneously a healing process, a time-capturing device (I always feel like albums encapsulate certain times in my life), a magical event (at times), and an unknowable evoker of other-worldly emotions. These traits are obviously few out of a million, but you understand what I'm saying. Well the insight I had wasn't something I could reason out or really even comprehend fully, but it was a definite feeling. And without wanting to sound overtly idealistic or naive, the feeling was love. No matter what kind of song I'm listening to (as long as it is one I like), the mood it conveys is just an off-shade of love, even if it is the most depressing song I've ever heard. To me, love is an all encompassing emotion that has been almost irreparably bastardized by misinterpretation and misuse. I really hope I'm making at least a sliver of sense, because this is rather hard. This is not something that I can communicate well, but if I didn't at least try I don't think I could live with myself. I guess the bottom line of what I am trying to say is, music is perhaps the only device I have for experiencing my humanity. It is the only device I have for feeling at one with all that exists. I wouldn't want to live if music didn't exist, and I don't say that out of haste or assumption. I know it is true without hesitation. I also regret having to sound dramatic, but I guess I'm a bit desperate. Well, that's enough out of me for awhile kids...if anyone wants to continue this "conversation" privately I would absolutely love to, but otherwise this may be the last you hear from me in awhile. I will still however continue to enjoy the wonderful works of prose that you kids put out daily. I just want to say thanks to all of you. You're my people and although I don't interact with you that often, I wouldn't be the same without you. Right, take care everyone... Justin xo "My mother was a tight knot, Bound up with false guilt. Strapped up in her fearing A wall she had built An independent girl in a dark and cruel world, She lost the way to say 'ok, now lay back' "We disagreed on most things. I shouted peace and love, the family of mankind, the symbol of the dove... She only saw the surface of things before her face, But I was young and argued on for hours." - Donovan, Age of Treason +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: i think that's what he said, but i need to hear it on a maxell
by Michael Cronshaw 17 Feb '00

17 Feb '00

Hello peeps, This is my first time (blush). I just thought I'd give an opinion on what is said at the end of Lazy Line Painter Jane at the Bowlie. Alasdair said; And how come I have managed to miss until now StuM shouting "FUCKING HIT ME!" near the end of LLPJ? Or is that not what he says at all? Nick said; Much as I'd like to believe that Stuartmmm got so excited by the occasion that he wanted the pain with the pleasure, I think he's actually saying 'FUCKING HIT IT, BEANS!' as in Chris 'Beanz' Geddes, who is giving the his organ a damn good thrashing at the time. I'd always assumed it was "FUCKING HIPPIES!", directed at the audience. And I thought it must have been Stuart D that said it, with his disaffection with the band being obvious, and with his Looper making electronic music, it would fit that B&S folkies at a festival could be seen as 'hippies'. Plus, even if it wasn't Stuart D, at least some members of B&S are (gulp, er, um) music marketing people, and therefore may not be in tune with some of their fans' values? (Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan) But thanks to Nick I can now see a less cynical viewpoint (even if I'm not entirely convinced). I should really know who said whatever it was anyway, as I was there, in body. I like to think that I'm the drunken twat who's screaming 'woo hoo' far too loud and suchlike inbetween songs, but I guess I'm not the only one who thinks that... Mikey.x _______________________ hmm... "There she was just a-walking down the street singing 'doo-wah-diddy-diddy-dum-diddy-doo' Paul Jones "And in the seventies there were Osmonds, there were lots of Osmonds, there were lots of little Osmonds everywhere, everywhere, oh everywhere" Lawrence _______________________ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: i shall miss the nursery...
by jason luther 17 Feb '00

17 Feb '00

as the subject might imply, this is my first ever post, and im a little excited. but come on, who wouldnt be? so please, if i ramble on about nothing, i apologize. its so wonderful to come home and read all of the posts i receive from the list everyday. its tremendously comforting to know there are other people out there that kind of think and act the same way that i do. i live in michigan, a suburb of detroit actually, and there are only like 3 people i know that are into belle and sebastian, its a terrible shame. my ex was the person who introduced me to them, and now that our friendship has waned a little, thats one less person i have to talk about belle and sebastian with, it depresses me. but hey now i have like 1500 people to talk to!! attempts have been made in my behalf to introduce some of my friends (if you can really call them that) to the beautifulness called belle and sebastian, but to no avail, they would rather listen to shit (i.e. limp biscuit, corn, and the like). i purchased a 'boy with the arab strap' t shirt, and wear it quite often, hoping that someone might recognize it. although this has never happened. today was an odd day. i went to university, which by the way, i hate, and muttled through one class. in between classes i have like an hour and a half break, and today i decided to go to the computer lab on campus and send one of those post cards from the jeepster site to my friend/ex, julie. while typing it out, i was listening to the 'rushmore' soundtrack. for some reason i decided to dance in my chair, and if youve ever seen me dance (which you havent, cause i dont) im sure it was quite a site. anyways it was great to just sit there and groove to the music, and type, in front of all my peers. music is the only thing that can take over my whole body, im sure you can all agree. upon finishing the postcard to julie, i decided to walk around and try to 'run into' the girl i have been chasing after. of course i didnt, so i skipped my second class and started the drive home. still in my weird mood, i decided to go to a local town and go music-shoppe-hopping. i didnt find anything i liked, the new 'supergrass' doesnt come out until like april, and apparently the new 'elliot smith' single wasnt released or something, anyways, i bought 'the cures' latest. okay, i arrived home, and still the record bag from jeepster hasnt come yet. sigh... well then, i popped into the sinister chat, and who happened to be there...? but the wonderful honey. for some unforeseen discrepancy, i have been in the nursery for like 2 and a half weeks, and honey was gracious enough to look me up and graduate me. so you can thank honey for this boring post heh heh, just kidding, its all my fault. well, i promise i wont post unless i have something exciting to say (which is pretty much never) orrrr if i get extremely bored (which is all the time). well im sorry if i just sucked 5 minutes from your day that you will never recover. to all of my fellow sinisterers.... jason the absent minded +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: however far away,i will always love you
by zoe charaktinou 17 Feb '00

17 Feb '00

last night i listened to lovesong about 20 times.mmm... those lyrics...that's how i feel these days...anyway. then i was reading this magazine my mom sent me from home and i was reading about places i know,places i just close my eyes and i'm there,routes i've done a billion times...and now... my everyday reality is someone else's now... i miss being in a car,with my friends and the music is loud and we just run in the highway of the big city... i know you don't give a fuck about all these and to be honest i shouldn't even be writing all these but...i had to. i wish i had a pc in my room.everynight i can't sleep i would read all the messages in sinister... now i am reading frankenstein.have to for the uni. i think i should go. ....you know,this title 'the loneliness of the middle-distance runner' is really appealing...i've been thinking about it for days... ...so i'm going to be the film director...mmm...can't i just lie down myself and do nothing? a yes,most probably this friday i am going to this club in manchester called jilly if i'm not mistaken.anyone else there? right.me go now... kisses and some more to some beloved ones... and loads of tears.z. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Ooo! Mother Goose!
by Robin Stout 17 Feb '00

17 Feb '00

Yesterday I was going to write something but my whole email account had been mysteriously deleted. It was a bit like waking up and discovering you don't exist. I had quite a bit to say yesterday, too, and I can't remember half of it now. It's good to see a fully fledged *list debate* blowing up again, though. I was going to say something about it yesterday, but my email soul had been kidnapped by the mechanical meanies. Now, I don't agree with Section 28 ( does anyone know why it stopped being a Clause? I remember when they used to call Father Christmas "Santa Section") but I do feel pretty sorry for Chris. I agree with the bit about empathising with gay people because I've been abused for being gay, a number of times, even though I'm not. And it's difficult to stand out, whatever minority you belong to. Nick said recently about how maybe we're all a bit freaky, and it's true that I've often felt like a freak just for liking simple things, and for actually giving a shit about people. But then, it's dead hard to stand up for yourself if you're not part of the crowd, and if Chris finds sanctury in the Church, I don't see much wrong with that. It's the whole Catholic thing that's the problem, I think, they tend to take things too literally. Fundamentalism of any sort is a bad thing. I come from an Anglican background and for me, the Church is mostly about standing in a big room, drinking sherry (our vicar had a funny definition of communion wine) and singing. Christianity is supposed to be about being caring, forgiving and tolerant, and the most "Christian" people I know are all these things. Stuart M, would probably call himself a Christian and he believes in pretty good stuff. I get a little angry with all the glib apathy that's always bandied about whenever an "issue" comes up. You know, not wanting to sound like a hippy, but if we cared a bit more about each other then Section 28 wouldn't be an issue in the first place - it wouldn't ever have existed. Blimey, that was a bit serious. Now, in the manner of That's Life, but with better knees than Esther Rantzen, for something rather more inane. Does anyone think that Belle and Sebastian is a good name or a bad name for a band? I don't think I'm objective enough to know. I've always thought that Oasis is a rather nambly pambly sort of name - it conjures up pictures of palm trees and camels - so it's a strange name for Noel "Fookin 'ell" Gallagher's band. Camels are quite smelly, though. I was speaking to a chap t'other day and said something about Belle and Sebastian and he said "are they a punk band, then?" I don't know how he reached that conclusion. Maybe I said it too quickly and it sounded like Belsen, or something. It snowed in Nottingham yesterday. I'd just left the cinema and the first flakes fell from the sky. By the time I'd got home everything was white. We even had enough for a snowball fight. By the morning most of it had gone, apart from a little on the roofs of houses and cars. People will see those cars today and think "Oh, I wonder where they've come from, it must have been snowing somewhere". Bye, then Robin x +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: P!O!P! AnArchY...
by velocity farewell 17 Feb '00

17 Feb '00

Hey you beloved ones... I've received some BMX Bandits and They Go Boom! stuff I've ordered from Action Records today and just had a small piece of turkish delight so... I feel quite happy... for a change... Listen... I think it was jarkko whos first mentioned that we're now officially 1211 people in the sinister-land... and I had this weird vision these last days... I M we could form a village... I mean, 1211 people can A easily form a village... the SiNiSteR villagio!!! G YEY!!! I and there can be jobs and responsibilities (I hate N both words, believe me) for everyone... so, I kept E on thinking who will do what... I've come up with ! some ideas... just read them and tell me what you think about it... there are loads of areas yet to be covered though... so, I'll definetelly need your help to make it work... but... Let's start... reading to your posts so far... I think that... Honey our dearest... should definetelly be our SiNiStEr Village's MAjOR... Our lovely Laura Llew will run our local BookStore / Publishing House... The Vicar will be our multi-religion/cults PriESt Erica McArthur... well, I'm a bit confussed about Erica... I First thought she must most certainly run the clothes store and be our fashion designer... but then I saw her photographs, loved them... and now I'm all messed up... My beloved George Henry will run the - what else - SiNiStER BoXinG GyM Paula Cullen... Paula would you like to run our Liquor StoRe? Please, say yes!!!! Nick Dastoor... I think he has to run the local S.M.E. that stands for SiNiStER Musical Express... I think I'll dare to have Alasdair as our Sinister School TeAcHeR and my darling Sweetie would you like to run the SinistEriAn HoRse- Stud- FaRm however this is called? I definetelly want Alexander to be our magnificent SiNiStEr CheF... My dearest Richard Pushong will run the new SaRaH ReCoRds... I think we have to call it melting candy recordings, that is if Richard has no objection to that... Peter Miller.... would you like to run the local DiScO? and would you please wear a nice jacket made of small pieces of broken mirror? that'd be ace... And... my beloved Zoe... will have to run the local TV stATioN and direct all the SiNiStEr films... My God!!! SiNiStER films!!! what they would be like, I wonder... no, actually I fear to wonder... so... my pretty ones... what do you think about my ideal of P!O!P! AnARcHy?? I know I've left out a lot of you... that's all I could come up with so far... Please, please, please... let me know what do you want to be in the SinIsTer VilLage... and who knows... maybe one day.... one of us will win the lottery, buy some land somewhere in CorsiKa and form this village after all... wouldn't that be great... Remember, we need doctors, farmers, psycho-therapists (most definetelly), musicians... and loads of others... ... I'm going now... I could be dreaming...... love+a big bonebreaking hug to you all V.F. XOXO PS: I'm still wondering what I'll be in that sinister village... any suggestions...? though, I think it'll be so nice there... I'll just lie down being lazy for the rest of my life... ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Storm The Palace
by Paul Arathoon 17 Feb '00

17 Feb '00

Dear Everyone it is with increasing satisfaction that I see the list becoming evermore politicised. In an age when "The Kids" (copyright NME) are becoming evermore apathetic to the systems that run their lives it is refreshing to see argument and constructive criticism on topics such as homosexuality, the church and whether private beliefs impinge upon corporate images. And there's not a bearded Marxist here to spoil it all by arguing that the communist Manifesto is the answer to all our problems . HUrrah. As for Stuart D leaving - he could have been a contender. I met him once, ,he said "hello" and I mumbled into my coat. That was a touch of genius but I am probably overinfluenced by the alcohol that is rushing through my body form last night. Buckfast: the drink of kings. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: I'm open! I'm open!
by Stealth Squirrel 17 Feb '00

17 Feb '00

Now, mister miller nee disco referred to a mythical fisting site, bob the builder or somesuch. I thought I might join in the fun by directing all of your browsers to www.majorrepairjob.com They put the "action" back in action figure. I picked up a hot-off-the press copy of the Who BBC sessions and by jove it rocks. I mean it. By far the best live version of Boris the Spider that I have ever heard. It's chock full of dippity-doo who at their finest. Most are pre-1970. Not only that, but if you happen to be near a MEGA-SELLOUT Best Buy, you can party yourself up with the DOUBLE CD set of the BBC sessions. Disk two is delirious with Demos. Ah. Demos. Speaking of THE OX, I have another one for your hungry browser. http://www.whodirect.com/ They actually have some of John Entwistle's original drawings. Check out the horrifying "caricature" of Rod Stewart. There is a frightening magic marker drawing of Keith. The man cannot draw hands. Obviously. So charming. Deliciously BAD. Rachael >From: "Peter Miller" <pjmiller(a)wanadoo.es> >Reply-To: "Peter Miller" <pjmiller(a)wanadoo.es> >To: "B&S mailing list" <sinister(a)missprint.org> >Subject: Sinister: Jenny Lives with Stuart and Richard (in a Church) >Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2000 12:49:32 +0100 > >Chris's teacher said: > >Apparently some grown men have had >to walk around with nappies due to damage caused to >their arse muscles. > >I thought it was illegal to promote homosexuality. Do you have any >idea what kind of price these men command down on the so-called meat >rack? Just ask all our London listees, espeicially the ones who moved >there from somewhere else, drawn by the tales of nappy-wearing men >with arse muscle damage. > >Yesterday I tried to visit Bob the Builder's website to see if he was >promoting homosexuality or fisting, but I couldn't get past the first >page. I was hoping for a bit of claymation arse cleavage. Mr Rusty's >always keen to check out the competition. It was his fault I made that >reference to "upstairs" the other day. Mr Rusty told me that no one >pulls birds with big jugs by beating about the bush, you have to grab >the bull by the horns. And like a damned fool, I believed him. I can >only apologise and promise never to refer to massive tits again. > >Thanks to Ailsa for explaining the Stagecoach affair. I must admit I >preferred it when I thought it was just a random bus-related rant from >the on-form and off-trolley Murdoch. > >Peter > > > >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ > +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ > To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe > send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to > majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister > +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ > +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ > +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ >+----------------------------------------------------------------------+ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: oh dear
by Will Porter 16 Feb '00

16 Feb '00

... and the new Will (who, truth be told, is getting a bit rusty) weighs in. I'm certain I outweigh the lot of you, so don't make me come over there. Regarding StuD's departure: I think it is bittersweet. On the one hand, it means I'll never get to see B&S's full lineup in concert. On the other hand, I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw it coming, and more Looper is perfectly ok with me. OK Regarding the big gay discussion: First: those of you who have seen fit to flame the bejeezus out of young mr. crystalballs, you ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Remember he's young yet. Second: Young mr. crystalballs, there is a reason that everyone you know who is older than you (particularly when you are in your teens, as your previous posts have indicated) eventually manages to indicate that you are too young to understand one thing or another. I know that it always sounds like a horrible slight to you, but it's true. No matter who has beaten you up or how many times, there is just some shit that takes you until you are older than you are now to really know what you think about it. Protest as much as you like, but I guarantee you that when you are 23, you will look back at your teens and think "man, I had some extraordinarily dumb thoughts when I was in my teens." Trust me. It happens to everyone and nobody thinks it will happen to them. What remains to be seen is whether or not your opinions on the present topic are among the thoughts/beliefs you are referring to when thinking that. (At this point, I have just reread the above, and realized that it's not only terribly awkward in terms of syntax, but also that it seems to be calling young chris stupid. Neither of these is my aim at all, I just don't know how to say it better). That said, consider how you would feel if someone said it was ok with them and with god if you were heterosexual, as long as you're not a PRACTICING heterosexual. THAT said, I applaud your choice not to leave the list. The list means a lot to me, as I'm sure it does to you, and you've been a contributing member of the list for far longer than I have, and you've certainly got just as much right as anyone else to continue to be. Furthermore, I like most of your posts. NOW. What I think about the whole damned mess, and what you should know about me before wondering where in the hell I come up with this crap. This is about to get terribly dull. You really should give up now. What you should know about me: I am heterosexual. I am essentially an atheist. This in no way impedes my belief in the human soul. The mortality or immortality of said soul is outside my range of knowledge, so I don't speculate. But I am as certain that there is no such creature as god as I am of anything else (which, truth be told, is not terribly certain). The way I see the world and its wonders and terrors and terrible wonders is best summed up in the words of some anonymous guy I heard say one sentence as I was flipping through the channels on my television: "That's not a miracle, it's just complicated." As you'll find if you're still reading this crap, such sound-bytes constitute a considerable portion of the foundation of my belief system. If you have any questions about how I could possibly believe this, I'd be happy to respond to private mail. I do not believe that the only purpose of sex is procreation. Further, I do not believe that anyone else genuinely believes this. Perhaps in creatures without sufficient higher brain function to attach emotion or anything but the most basic compulsion to the act, but not in human beings, and even, I would say (given my utter lack of biological expertise, I can make sweeping statements like this) not in mammals. What I think about the whole mess: It is my belief that homosexuality (which strikes me as a poorly applied term that engenders bigotry by focusing on the sex part and not on the love part--I'd prefer homoamory, but it's not really my decision) is not only a perfectly ordinary and acceptable thing, but it is the single most important factor in inter- and intragender relations in the efforts to develop a post-patriarchal society (which have most certainly haven't finished doing, but we're still making progress). I came to this conclusion after waiting to give a paper at a symposium on gender. While I was waiting, I overheard a bit of a conversation. The woman who was speaking was named Katie, and I have a bit of a weakness for Katies, so I was paying attention to her, but I was still far enough away that I couldn't hear most of the conversation. (Incidentally, Katie was waiting to give an excellent paper on Oscar Wilde). The only bit of the conversation that I heard was as follows: Katie: ... meanwhile, the straight people are still wondering which one is the man and which one is the woman ... (referring to an outsider observing a gay relationship) Katie's friends: mad laughter My immediate reaction was to think "well, duh. I mean, we can't just tell which is which by looking at them." (yes, Katie and her friends were laughing at me, even though they didn't know it). It took me a while, mulling it over in my head to finally get it: neither of them is necessarily "the man" or "the woman". They're either both men or both women, and that is the way they want it. Given these circumstances, adhering to the broadly societally accepted norms of gender behavior (who irons, who mows the grass, who is most emotionally available, who initiates sex, etc.), there would be a lot of duplicated effort and a lot of things not getting done (to put it basely). What is created, then, in a gay relationship, is a relationship without a model, in fact a relationship that defies gender-based models because the two participants are necessarily gender-equal. The result is that the things that need to get done within that relationship fall into the hands the person who is most inclined or least disinclined to do those things--everything from ironing to initiating lovemaking. That being the case, the only hope we have to unburden ourselves from the eons of patriarchy that have been handed down to us is for straight couples to adopt the gay model (or unmodel, if you prefer) for their own relationships. In short, the widespread (universal would be preferable, but I don't want to sound too naive) acceptance of gay people as equals and as teachers is indispensable to advancing the cause of feminism and the quest for a post-patriarchal society. there, I said it will (phatlip in #sinister) +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: doyagetnervouswatchinmebleed /:P
by Georgine Skeene 16 Feb '00

16 Feb '00

first off, about the thing. I do apologize if anything i said offended anyone, i was in a bad mood yesterday, i'm pmsing, so then i got home and read that kind of thing, and it made me even more pissed. i didn't mean it as a personal attack on anyone. It's the same sort of thing i've heard about gays for ever, but it doesn't hurt any less. we can have sympathy for those who believe that stuff, but what about making those comments when there might be people on the list who would also be hurt by them? so i'm sorry for being pissy. at the time i read that digest, i hadn't received the later ones yet and so i didn't know i was just continuing what snowballed into looking like a huge tirade. I dont' think *most* of the ppl who responded were being cruel or personal about it, just saying that those things didnt' make any sense to them. Friends? i didn't think so. oh well. jarrkko i dont' think it's freaky. things like that feel like an attack on anyone who is queer. it's an old raw wound. and yeah i'm saying it right here. BLEH i thought alexanders' discussion was very sensible and well thought out, and very nice. incidentally this is a good and fair URL on the same vein(seriously, it's excellent): http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm Sarah, anytime, anyplace. a cup of tea. *Lesbian* tea. BOO. you ever find you're wearing a dress you don't remember putting on, it's got all dirty and you dont' knwo how you got there, you wish you could take it off but it's been sewed into your skin? where is teri the meltthesnow lovely northern girl, is she still lurking about somewhere? Begging for some Honey=flavoured discipline, LJ (the psycho, PMS-ing bitch) http://members.tripod.com/rebelstrange to the pure, all things are pure--- http://members.tripod.com/rebelstrange/buxoms.html ***The Buxoms: Svengali-free since 1998!!*** ______________________________________________________ Sent by FortuneCity Mail at http://www.fortunecity.com Join now and receive 20Mb of free web space and E-mail +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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