May 2000 - Sinister - missprint.org

Sinister: The unbareable tweeness of lightning
by Grant Bennett 19 May '00

19 May '00

Hello all. This is my first post, as I've just been released from the nursery. I was all shades of miffed at not being able to partake in the discussions of s***ing out, but, such is the price of infancy. To beat a dead horse, I personally prefer the term "jumped the shark" to "s***ing out". It's based on the premise that "Happy Days" was a good show until Fonzie jumped his motorcycle over a shark tank. After that, it went downhill. In my humble opinon, as long as a band continues to put out music that makes you _feel_ something, then they haven't jumped the shark. That out of the way, I suppose I should introduce myself. Name: Grant Bennett Age: 23 Where I am: Maryville, Missouri, USA Bands I dig: B&S, They Might Be Giants, Rancid, Rollins Band, Velvet Underground, Propellerheads... a bunch of stuff, really. Back to content: Regarding Napster: I use it, quite often. If I hear of a new band, I see if I can find some of their songs that way. This is how I was first exposed to Billy Bragg. If I like the stuff, I'll purchase some albums. If I don't, well, I delete it. The sound quality is... ok, I guess. I don't really have much of a hi-fi system. I generally won't download mp3s of artists that I really dig. If they have a new album coming out, I'll buy it, knowing that I'll probably like it. (If you're looking for a laugh, visit http://www.theonion.com and read the Kid Rock article.) On politics in songs: To paraphrase John Sebastian of The Lovin' Spoonful -- artists haven't been that astute in making political statements in the past, so why should they start now? I don't listen to a lot of overtly political bands (Atari Teenage Riot being an exception), and I'm not a very political person. Except when it comes to free-speech issues. Apart from that, eh. Not really concerned that much. I tend to be more left-leaning than conservative. Don't get me wrong -- I dig songs that get you all riled up about issues, and I'm fully aware that my punk rock tastes are firmly rooted in socio-economic-political situations, but to me the music, the emotion expressed in the song, the song's ability to make you _feel_ emotions is more important than the message. "Sloop John B" is about a bad time on a ship and nothing more, but it's one of my favorite songs. "I Don't Like Mondays" is about a school shooting and the reaction to it, and it's my favorite song in the whole world. But it's the emotion that matters. With Kid Rock, for example, I get a sense of love for the music he's sampling. With Limp Bizkit, I don't get any sense of emotion whatsoever. Similar artists, yet there are subtle differences. Enough on this missive, however. Back to B&S. I got into B&S not entirely by accident. I thought that TBWTAS was an interesting title, so I bought it. And loooooooved it! It's the only B&S I have, but, it got me here, didn't it? I've not heard "Legal Man" yet, but I simply must hear "Judy is a dick slap". I love that title. Don't know why. (Question: What is an "arab strap"? I know that there's a band in GB called Arab Strap, and with the B&S album, I'm sure that it's a real thing. Is it a wacky British thing that I'm not hip to yet? Is it something that would make my grandma cringe?) Anyhow, my 15 minutes are up. And I need to go back to work. I may post a lot, I may not. Who knows? Oh, thanks to the people who were patient with a baby on IRC. -- Johnny ICQ: 8172344 +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "peculiarly deranged fanbase" "frighteningly named +-+ +-+ Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Tigermilk & Honey
by Jarrod San Angel 18 May '00

18 May '00

(copied to the list) Dearest Honey, First and foremost, allow me to ask of you your forgivnace for creating a monster on an otherwise placid list, when all I aimed to do was give a personal review of the forthcoming album. True enough, my tone was not that of one who seemed to care what others thought, and I am saddened to think that I may have burst more than a few bubbles out there. I suppose I meant my review as more of a heads up to list members, as opposed to a flat out attack on the album - but whilst taking in the aftermath of my post, I've come to agree with many that I should have at least given some sort of disclaimer about my post - warned those who don't want a foreign opinion thrust upon them - not to read below a certain point. Alas, I did not, and sloppily threw together a post that was neither flattering (to myself or the band), nor kind. I'll venture to say that I was just so shocked at the knowledge that this album was much LESS than what I expected (and again, my expectations were not out of reach), that I just had to release some of the frustration (over the album) that was brewing & brooding up in my heart. If truth be told, the review I posted took me all of 10 minutes to compose, and I sent it off into cyberspace without so much as a backward glance to see if what I had written could in any way be misconstrued or taken offensively. In a previous post, I had admitted that I knew some of my words would inflame the all too delicate sensibilities of some on the list, and that there would be a backlash - but I ask you, Honey - is it the aim of the list to quash an opinion that angers or upsets some? It the role you play one in which you must censor or hush comments that could upset some feeble mind? Forgive me, when I say feeble mind, I mean a mind that seemingly cannot withstand an outside opinion. And from the looks of my inbox, there are many. Okay, so there are rules that must be adhered to, and yes, indeedy, I did in fact agree to them upon signing up. Agreed. I will henceforth comply. I have no problem with that. However, what I and many others have a problem with is that there are those here who DEMAND constant harmony on the list, and that simply can't be. In an ideal world, yes, we'd all get along swimmingly, and agree on every turn of phrase. But the truth is much harsher. There will be those who will speak out of turn, out of line, and just plain confound and irritate people. Fear not, I don't plan to be one such bastard. =) But I will defend the right to speak, pontificate, expound, elaborate, and jeer freely and openly on any subject the list deems worthy. It's a basic right, old as democracy itself. By the way, the comment I made about the rules being as ridiculous as those in the Cider House Rules was unfounded. I haven't even yet read the Sinister List rules.. my point, albeit badly made, was that ANY rules on a mailing list will ineveitably be broken, whether intentionally, or unwittingly. And so to have such rules only leads to further unrest when one breaks them.. but I do understand their importance, and now, having read them.. I will uphold them, as promised. Honey, it's nice to have a place to come to discuss anything and everything under the sun, and I value the many personalities I've found here on the list, yourself very much included. Let me just say that, now (golly, hopefully!) that this storm is clearing, it is in my sights to embark upon a renewed and more constructive relationship with you and the other sinisterians. Let us embark upon something sweeter, long may it last.. I hope to hear more from you, and look forward to further discussions. You've been more than kind to write to me to explain a few things.. I thank you! Jarrod San Angel >From: honey(a)missprint.org >To: Jarrod San Angel <sanangel22(a)hotmail.com> >CC: sinister(a)missprint.org >Subject: Re: Sinister: Thus Spoke Every Zarathustra >Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 22:34:37 +0100 (BST) > >Copied to the list: let this be an end to the discussion of list >content please. > >Jarrod, > >I'll assume you sent your mails before you saw mine to the list. >Please don't misunderstand me. I'd never in a thousand years say >people shouldn't criticise the band, or the label on this list. I >don't think you did anything wrong in giving your opinions of the LP, >such as you heard it via MP3. We differ a little in your style of >delivery, but that's a personal matter, not a list protocol matter. >And strong and varying opinions are the meat of any mailing list. > >So far so good. But please understand this list has rules, and you >signed up for them when you subscribed. They've evolved over a long >time, involved a lot of people, who have reached a powerful consensus >over how to make a mailing list this big and this active survive. They >took a lot of time and a lot of patient care by a lot of people who >worked to make this list what it is today, and that work continues, by >the kind people who take time to mail me. I therefore can't help but >wince a little when you say: > > > The rules of the list seem as ridiculous as those in The Cider House > > Rules, should any of you read the book. > >Forgive me, that stings a little. This is your opinion. But this list >has rules, others don't have so many, or none, and you make your own >choices where to live. And that's fine. > > > It's a bit of a joke, really, > > that there are rules at all, > >We differ. > > > as lists like this not only provide a forum for > > celebration for a band, but a much needed trading of new and different >ideas > > and such. > >Very very true. And not just celebration, and not just the band. > > > You can't regulate such a thing without there being lines drawn, > > and emotions upset. > >I believe exactly the opposite, and I think the current episode shows >that. And we both agree that lines being drawn are sometimes a good >things, sometimes bad I think. > > > So I'm all for dropping any rules, and having a free > > for all.. > >Jarrod, this is non-negotiable. You're allowed to mail *me* and >discuss list content, and I promise faithfully to project true >opinion about the list by the majority of members as it's >communicated to me. I don't want to and won't run a list that the >majority of members don't like. Besides, they'll just leave. > >Nothing in the FAQ limits discussion of any content on the list, apart >from discussion of list content itself, which you indulge in here; it's >outlawed for the reasons outlined in my list mail, and this consensus >was reached after bitter experiences on this and other lists. The >other thing that's outlawed is outright vicious flaming, which no-one's >quite done yet, happily. People criticise the band, the label, and >should feel very free to do so too if they think their cause is just. >I'd just like to avoid false oppositions, and if we're criticising an >individual band member or whatever, I'd like to make very sure they get >the same courtesy as anyone else. It's a question of tone, I guess. > >Finally just a couple of minor things. Please remember to ask people >if you're posting exerpts from private mails they sent you: it's >courtesy, and actually lawful to do this. I'm sure none of the >people you quoted mind, and maybe you asked them all, if so disregard >this. Secondly please do be careful about sending mails twice to >Sinister. We have a lot of list traffic and it helps to keep the >volume down. > >Thanks, >Honey > > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "peculiarly deranged fanbase" "frighteningly named +-+ +-+ Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Legal Man Lyrics/New Album Opinion
by Valiums＠aol.com 18 May '00

18 May '00

Hello there, LEGAL MAN WORDS Someone on the list was wondering/complaining that the lyrics to 'Legal Man' were not included with the single. Well they are, you just have to explore the inside of the booklet a bit and you'll find them. The lyrics are actually the content of the letter to Ms. Symington from Robert Banchory on the right side of the insert. Hold it close to your face to read. NEW ALBUM I have the new album and I have listened to it many times now. All I'm going to say it's quite beautiful and brilliant. Think of it as a combination of the best bits of 'Tigermilk' and 'IYFS'. If anybody wants to know anything else about it before it comes out they can e-mail me privately. Goodbye for now, Jason +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +-+ "peculiarly deranged fanbase" "frighteningly named +-+ +-+ Sinister List organisation" - NME May 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Ad Nauseum
by Jarrod San Angel 18 May '00

18 May '00

Quick message, no heady discussion or elaborate arguments. 1. Thank You to ALL of You, meanies included, who sent me private messages to state how they felt, and what Belle & Sebastian mean to them.I haven't had such impassioned email since Lord Knows When.. 2. If you've not heard the new album, and you don't plan to download any clips or songs until the album is actually thrust upon the public, I've come to agree, it just makes good sense to NOT read ANY review, until you've had sufficient time to make up your own mind. I direct this comment to ESPECIALLY those among us who are very, and I MEAN VERY sensitive to this issue. Not to poke fun, but one lad recently wrote to me to say he felt "inferior" for not hearing any of the new album yet, and that I should keep my reviews to myself. If you don't care to know how one feels about the new release, DON'T READ THE REVIEWS. It's that simple. For those of you who've heard some of the new stuff, please, by all means, comment and comment away! 3. I thought it proper to formally introduce myself. My name, as most of you now well know, is Jarrod San Angel. I'm 23, married to a wonderful lady named Shermeen, living in Pasadena, Ca., and have listened to B&S since IYFS first came out. I love B&S with all my heart, and think only the best of them. Other musical interests include, naturally, The Smiths, Morrissey, Momus, Beck, Looper, Smog, The Ladybug Transistor, Magnetic Fields, Cafe Tacuba, Cesaria Evora, Marisa Monte, Edith Piaf, Madredeus, Aterciopelados, Radiohead, REM, Pink Martini, Gene, Suede, The Cardigans, Luna, Portishead, Morcheeba, Stereolab, and a whole hatful of indie bands, classical composers, and world music. Nice to meet y'all. Jarrod San Angel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Thus Spoke Every Zarathustra
by Jarrod San Angel 18 May '00

18 May '00

"hi. well done. once they get all high and mighty on you -you're doomed." "It's so funny that they hate you for being informative. I laughed and laughed at the diatribe in point form! Sheesh, these guys crack me up." "I've had the album for awhile and my first impression of it wasn't good. But I've been listening for weeks now and I'm seeing more depth to it as time goes on. It does demand a bit more or the listener, yes. Some songs I'm never going to like, but that might be me. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. The band were trying out some new things, and good for them -- I'd be a little disappointed if they kept turning the same thing out over and over again." "The prime rules, which seem to make sense are: Read the FAQ and Rules (so you know what the list is like); Don't Talk About The List on the List (so the list doesn't get its head up its own arse)" "I hope nobody was too mean to you. I've been gone off on in the past, so I know it's not pleasant :)" "Personally, I will buy it, wait and listen, and see what I think." "Hoping legal man isn't a taste of things to come though. I know they said change etc is good, but not if you turn into a bunch of mainstream rip off merchants. Although this might get them more sales, they could end up alienating those fans that won't jump just cos Isobel does." "Although that said, Legal Man is working its way into me. Usually however, a B+S song is capable of doing that on the first occasion of hearing it, and I think it says something if this one is taking longer than usual." "I do object to them ripping into you. First of all because: a. it makes them look like a bunch of Manic Street Preachers fans, or goths, in their intense love for the band; b. you are freely entitled to an opinion, and nobody has the right to silence you cos you speak out against the regime; c your point had better grounding really, than that of theirs. I think yours was more objective, while they appeared to be in such a swizzle about it, seemed to loose logic of arguement in favour of feverent passion. d. Isobel is shit. Very shit. shes dull and boring. Personally, I think Stevie Jackson numbers are quite good, quite harmonious vocie, but isobel, well, would B+S be classed twee if it wasn't for her? shes irritating, and quite frankly, her music is a little to simple and cutsie for me. I like lyrics and singing that makes an intelligent observation upon things that although I can't always relate to, can sway my understanding. e. I bet even the band would appreciate your honesty, and if I were them, I think I'd have to take a deep breath and worry about some of those hyper senstive cases taking offence on their behalf." "Ignore those few silly sods in the sinister list that so openly think that their opinion is that of the masses, and speak out against you in the list. Personally, I believe that if they had wanted those opinions purely expressed as their own, a private message would have been in order. Don't shy away from speaking out. Sod them, they don't know whether they are a majority or minority unless we run a poll, and despite this, nobody can tell you that you must never speak out against B+S. if anyone does, they will either be told to f*** off, or, if it were Honey, who I doubt it would be, then to be honest, I think some of the more democratical members will take their leave and boycott. And Honey isn't the type to do that. You take care, and stay outspoken! it generates thought amidst the stale conversations!" AND FINALLY.... "Don't take any shit from these kids!! I'm in full conurrence with what you said." ** Hello Fellow Sinisterians ** The above snippets and excerpts were taken from various emails that are now clogging up my inbox, and let it be known that ALL of these thoughts are more than welcome. I'm a stalwart believer in encouraging a healthy flow and exchange of ideas, thoughts, opinions - contradictory, inflammatory, & challenging or not! It is only through constant dialogue with one another that we gain a greater understanding of ourselves - the precious souls that so merrily (or merrilessly) populate this great list. This is incredibly important - more so than more of a few of you even come close to comprehending. My reason for posting some of your comments to me is simple: to showcase for all the great cross-section of thought available here. After examining so many different words - words of anger, venom, and rage; words of support & understanding - I deemed it necessary to display the variety - the unignorable diversity - of mindsets, thoughts, and stances here. Only by addressing the issue can we begin to correct it - if "correcting" it is at all something we need to consider. Personally, I'm intrigued by the array of emotion I've been witness to here. My original intent was not to start a war of sorts, but to simply air my own opinion of the new album. I'll confess that I could have done so in a more respectful manner - and by that, I mean perhaps I should not have ultimately dubbed the album a "letdown," (and instead say that I'm really going to need time for this one to grow on me), but the flipside of all of this is that what I wrote really got us talking - even confronting the dysfunction that seems to be evident on this list. The rules of the list seem as ridiculous as those in The Cider House Rules, should any of you read the book. It's a bit of a joke, really, that there are rules at all, as lists like this not only provide a forum for celebration for a band, but a much needed trading of new and different ideas and such. You can't regulate such a thing without there being lines drawn, and emotions upset. So I'm all for dropping any rules, and having a free for all.. Write what you feel, and feel what you write. Be honest, be open. If it gets us to really deal with each other on a more human, more sincere and genuine level, then I say that's a good thing. Progress! Jarrod San Angel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Re: Sinister: The New Album: Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy
by carrot515＠juno.com 18 May '00

18 May '00

Hmm where to begin... perhaps the reason why everyone is being so pissy about this review is they've unwrapped their shiny new copies of legal man...12" & cd because you're a fan and jeepster wouldn't just toss around the "extended version" tag lightly right?....and then maybe you popped in said single and were... i don't know maybe slapped in the face with exactly the kind of mediocrity that jarrod exposed to be forthcoming... this kind of restriction and cencorship on a list open enough to post what should really be diary entries and maintain a sort of gallery contain the rude bits of some of its members(tee hee...)is really kind of hypocritical...is the opinion what scares you? or the fact that he may be right? what is the harm in posting your feelings about this band's music....isn't this really... you know...a music discussion list? would there have been this sort of uproar if the review had been glowing? this is all extremely hard for me to swallow...i've been subscribed to this list for quite a long time...and i feel bad for honey and the fact that he now has to constantly shepherd this flock around lest it collapse as a result of going too far astray...an unenviable task to be sure also what used to be my little band....my little secret that were too fragile to survive in the big wide world of mainstream music.....have taken that leap...they're everywhere.... porn magazines have mentioned them for christ sakes....and it seems they are imploding under this pressure...sure they snagged that brit award...but really shouldn't we all have been a little worried for what that sort of exposure would do to them stuart m recedes deeper and deeper into the woodwork with every release...both of the press and musical variety...and unfortunately what it has proved is that his is the true musical talent behind the group...the true vision...and sure to be the largest casualty once this whole thing blows up....whereas prior albums were recorded in weeks this new work has taken hmm...almost 2 years.....pressure pressure...i loved this band with all my musical beating heart....but with each release they are quickly becoming less and less dear to me....seeing someone with a "i study at show" shirt used to be a joy and a triumph for us all....these days you have to wonder....maybe thats the indie nerd inside me....but hell without that guy i never would have found them in the first place...weren't all the early songs..(ie before they started going that gangster rap route and singing about lawyers) about outsiders doing their thing and being okay anyway? it's hard to keep up that outlook when frat boys, jocks, (insert your favorite bad guy stereotype here) the worldwide have their meaty claws all over your favorite little band, as elitest as it may seem...although surely the opinion nazis here could give me a pointer or to about the concept of elitism, eh? so the day when i leave this band and its community behind is seemingly rapidly approaching...leave to find a new band to save my soul and make bad days alright....although i pray to every possible deity that i am forced to eat these words and sentiments, to admit that B&S are still on top of their shit...on top of the music world, right where they belonged i realize in advance that my opinion was not requested...and therefore i shouldn't have divulged...but you know i really didnt ask over the past years to hear about what you ate for dinner and how you're doing in school and to see your penis through your unbuttoned jeans....difference being i never complained whereas surely you will enjoy your lunches and dinners xoxo love ryan ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: mod fight club
by kevin-m 18 May '00

18 May '00

hello again. last night i was at mod club, a wed. night event in toronto when i heard a song that i thought could be legal man (which i had only heard once the previous saturday at the blowup). as i broke off a conversation to listen to the song for a second, these guys started shouting and smashing glasses. i looked over and saw a poor girl get shoved over a chair and then all the girl's mod friends drag these two guys outside where there was a big fight. it would seem that they weren't regulars, got really drunk and started to slag some people. either way, one of the guys got in a cab, almost got pulled out but then managed to hop in another and drive off. it was almost entertaining (there's not much of that stuff in toronto) but i missed legal man, if that's what it was. maybe i should wait until i get paid next week and buy the cd. yes, i think so. hope you are well much love, k. |lofemo(a)hotmail.com|www.members.tripod.com/lofemo| __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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None
by Jarrod San Angel 18 May '00

18 May '00

"hi. well done. once they get all high and mighty on you -you're doomed." "It's so funny that they hate you for being informative. I laughed and laughed at the diatribe in point form! Sheesh, these guys crack me up." "I've had the album for awhile and my first impression of it wasn't good. But I've been listening for weeks now and I'm seeing more depth to it as time goes on. It does demand a bit more or the listener, yes. Some songs I'm never going to like, but that might be me. Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion. The band were trying out some new things, and good for them -- I'd be a little disappointed if they kept turning the same thing out over and over again." "The prime rules, which seem to make sense are: Read the FAQ and Rules (so you know what the list is like); Don't Talk About The List on the List (so the list doesn't get its head up its own arse)" "I hope nobody was too mean to you. I've been gone off on in the past, so I know it's not pleasant :)" "Personally, I will buy it, wait and listen, and see what I think." "Hoping legal man isn't a taste of things to come though. I know they said change etc is good, but not if you turn into a bunch of mainstream rip off merchants. Although this might get them more sales, they could end up alienating those fans that won't jump just cos Isobel does." "Although that said, Legal Man is working its way into me. Usually however, a B+S song is capable of doing that on the first occasion of hearing it, and I think it says something if this one is taking longer than usual." "I do object to them ripping into you. First of all because: a. it makes them look like a bunch of Manic Street Preachers fans, or goths, in their intense love for the band; b. you are freely entitled to an opinion, and nobody has the right to silence you cos you speak out against the regime; c your point had better grounding really, than that of theirs. I think yours was more objective, while they appeared to be in such a swizzle about it, seemed to loose logic of arguement in favour of feverent passion. d. Isobel is shit. Very shit. shes dull and boring. Personally, I think Stevie Jackson numbers are quite good, quite harmonious vocie, but isobel, well, would B+S be classed twee if it wasn't for her? shes irritating, and quite frankly, her music is a little to simple and cutsie for me. I like lyrics and singing that makes an intelligent observation upon things that although I can't always relate to, can sway my understanding. e. I bet even the band would appreciate your honesty, and if I were them, I think I'd have to take a deep breath and worry about some of those hyper senstive cases taking offence on their behalf." "Ignore those few silly sods in the sinister list that so openly think that their opinion is that of the masses, and speak out against you in the list. Personally, I believe that if they had wanted those opinions purely expressed as their own, a private message would have been in order. Don't shy away from speaking out. Sod them, they don't know whether they are a majority or minority unless we run a poll, and despite this, nobody can tell you that you must never speak out against B+S. if anyone does, they will either be told to f*** off, or, if it were Honey, who I doubt it would be, then to be honest, I think some of the more democratical members will take their leave and boycott. And Honey isn't the type to do that. You take care, and stay outspoken! it generates thought amidst the stale conversations!" AND FINALLY.... "Don't take any shit from these kids!! I'm in full conurrence with what you said." ** Hello Fellow Sinisterians ** The above snippets and excerpts were taken from various emails that are now clogging up my inbox, and let it be known that ALL of these thoughts are more than welcome. I'm a stalwart believer in encouraging a healthy flow and exchange of ideas, thoughts, opinions - contradictory, inflammatory, & challenging or not! It is only through constant dialogue with one another that we gain a greater understanding of ourselves - the precious souls that so merrily (or merrilessly) populate this great list. This is incredibly important - more so than more of a few of you even come close to comprehending. My reason for posting some of your comments to me is simple: to showcase for all the great cross-section of thought available here. After examining so many different words - words of anger, venom, and rage; words of support & understanding - I deemed it necessary to display the variety - the unignorable diversity - of mindsets, thoughts, and stances here. Only by addressing the issue can we begin to correct it - if "correcting" it is at all something we need to consider. Personally, I'm intrigued by the array of emotion I've been witness to here. My original intent was not to start a war of sorts, but to simply air my own opinion of the new album. I'll confess that I could have done so in a more respectful manner - and by that, I mean perhaps I should not have ultimately dubbed the album a "letdown," (and instead say that I'm really going to need time for this one to grow on me), but the flipside of all of this is that what I wrote really got us talking - even confronting the dysfunction that seems to be evident on this list. The rules of the list seem as ridiculous as those in The Cider House Rules, should any of you read the book. It's a bit of a joke, really, that there are rules at all, as lists like this not only provide a forum for celebration for a band, but a much needed trading of new and different ideas and such. You can't regulate such a thing without there being lines drawn, and emotions upset. So I'm all for dropping any rules, and having a free for all.. Write what you feel, and feel what you write. Be honest, be open. If it gets us to really deal with each other on a more human, more sincere and genuine level, then I say that's a good thing. Progress! Jarrod San Angel ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Sinister: Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy
by Catspaw1＠aol.com 18 May '00

18 May '00

I consider IYFS to be the band's best, but I recognize TBWTAS as a leap forward in terms of musical progress. As such, I'm not expecting B&S to stay in a rut forever, and am open to any new sounds they care to foist upon us. >From there I'll make my own judgment. But did I hear that posting reviews to the list is a no-no? This is list policy? Maybe I misunderstood, but if this is the case, can someone explain why? If a post is clearly labeled "review" then that should eliminate all of this whining about having to listen someone else's opinion, right? I'm having trouble with the notion that a mailing list about a band would make reviews taboo.... B Clay +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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Re: Sinister: The New Album: Don't Ask, Don't Tell Policy
by Coldcolours＠aol.com 18 May '00

18 May '00

Hello, Question: Which is a greater threat to the viability of this mailing list, the perceived irrelevance of some of the posts, or the insults and negativity of those who protest them? I personally would much rather read about the lives of B+S fans and their attempts to reconcile to the band's new found popularity (?) than a hundred and one reviews of the legal man video. This is a time of chaos/conflict for all us self-proclaimed indie snobs (or just me :) ) who want to keep B+S under the bed, so we can enjoy it exactly as we perceive it, and not have it be spoiled by the indifference or misinterpretation of the "mainstream." I find other fans' perspectives on this fascinating. To those who are annoyed by this list: you knew when you signed up that it was not straight, low-volume content. You are killing the list as you protest against its dying by insulting people and being rude. That's all I have to say about that. If you think I am mistaken about the purpose of this list, then correct me. But nicely, please! Joanna PS Perhaps we are adopting premature opinions about the new album just so we can have opinions? Maybe we shouldn't judge until we have weighed the evidence carefully. Maybe we just shouldn't judge at all. +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ +---+ Brought to you by the undead Sinister mailing list +---+ To send to the list mail sinister(a)missprint.org. To unsubscribe send "unsubscribe sinister" or "unsubscribe sinister-digest" to majordomo(a)missprint.org. WWW: http://www.missprint.org/sinister +-+ "legion of bedroom saddo devotees" "tech-heads and students" +-+ +-+ "the cardie wearing biscuit nibbling belle & sebastian list" +-+ +-+ "sinsietr is a bit freaky" - stuart david, looper +-+ +-+ "pasty-faced vegan geeks... and we LOST!" - NME April 2000 +-+ +----------------------------------------------------------------------+

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